760 starting problem

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blurp - 02 Aug 2005 19:43 GMT

Well I spoke too soon in praising this car (1988 760GLE) as "hassle
free".

Someone else posted this problem here but I can't find any responses
so I'll post it too.

It has happenend a few times that when I turn the key in the ignition
I hear a single <click> but the engine won't turn over or anything.
All the dummy lights come on and when I turn the key from KP II to KP
III the Seatbelt warning light goes off and the OD up arrow comes on
while I'm holding the key in that position and then return to normal
when I release. I suspected the sensor that detemines the car is not
in gear (i.e. in P or N) but shifting from P to N and all around had
no effect. Checked all the fuses and the connections to the battery,
all seemed fine.

After a few tries it would finally catch and turn over and start just
fine as though there was never a problem. It's happened about 6 times,
each time a few weeks apart and each time getting going after a few
minutes and something else was tried (nothing has worked more than
once). For example:

1. Started when I turned the key and fiddled with the window switches.

2. Started when I turned the key and turned the steering wheel.

3. Started when I pulled the key halfway out (my ignition doesn't lock
in the key).

4. Started when I rapidly turned the key from KP I to KP III in one
swift motion.

5. Started when I rapidly turned the key from KP II to KP III and back
a dozen times as fast as I could.

6. The last time (today) I connected my voltmeter across the battery
terminals to ensure the battery was charged (it showed 12.5v) and when
I set it so I could see it from inside the car and went to check how
the voltage dropped when I turned the key, the damned thing started.
This was the last time so I haven't tried it again... yet.

So the list of things I'll try is getting longer but none seems to be
the fix. This afternoon I was stranded for 20 minutes, not sure if it
would start at all.

Every time it was when the car was hot and I just ran into a store or
something and came out. Could it be temperature related? Is there some
power threshold below which the battery can't turn the starter even
once?

Ignition switch? Starter motor? Both? Neither?

Ideas?

Thanks,
blurp

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Andy Coles - 03 Aug 2005 08:34 GMT

Solenoid click when turning the ignition key to crank over the engine sounds
a bit like a dicky cell on your battery. Certainly this may be the easiest
place to start especially if the battery has been on the car for a few
years.

Andy

> Well I spoke too soon in praising this car (1988 760GLE) as "hassle
> free".
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
> Thanks,
> blurp

Reply to this Message

Mike F - 03 Aug 2005 15:03 GMT

> Well I spoke too soon in praising this car (1988 760GLE) as "hassle
> free".
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
> Thanks,
> blurp

I've heard of ignition switches, starter motors and batteries all
failing in this manner.

Signature

Mike F.
Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
(But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)

Reply to this Message

blurp - 03 Aug 2005 16:30 GMT

>> Well I spoke too soon in praising this car (1988 760GLE) as "hassle
>> free".
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>I've heard of ignition switches, starter motors and batteries all
>failing in this manner.

I was able to find some reference to this problem on BrickBoard which
suggested lightly tapping the starter when this no-start condition
occurs. If it starts then you've found the problem, if not then you've
eliminated a suspect. I just have to find the starter in there.

Unfortunately I don't know exactly how to precipitate the no-start
condition so I'll have to be prepared to try it when it happens.

I don't know if there's any way to test the ignition switch but
nothing else seems to be failing and all other electrical systems work
great even when the car won't start. When it does finally start it
starts strong so if the battery is the problem I don't know how it
could be diagnosed (by myself or the garage).

Any ideas how to test the ignition switch?

Thanks,
blurp

Reply to this Message

Peter K L Milnes - 03 Aug 2005 23:50 GMT

Try making sure that the battery connectors are clean and tight. A swift tap
on top of them with a large screwdriver handle (plastic) may well make the
difference between starting and not starting.

All the best, Peter.

700/900/90 Register Keeper,
Volvo Owners Club (UK).

>>> Well I spoke too soon in praising this car (1988 760GLE) as "hassle
>>> free".
[quoted text clipped - 74 lines]
> Thanks,
> blurp

Reply to this Message

Mike F - 04 Aug 2005 13:29 GMT

> I was able to find some reference to this problem on BrickBoard which
> suggested lightly tapping the starter when this no-start condition
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Thanks,
> blurp

Just because tapping the starter doesn't (temporarily) fix the problem
it doesn't eliminate it as a suspect. However if the tapping does fix
the problem, then you've most likely found it. I'm not sure where it is
on the V6, but the 4 cylinder cars have a remote starter wire high on
the firewall near the center. Connect a test light between that and
ground. When the starter is engaged the test light will light. Note
what happens next time the problem occurs.

Signature

Mike F.
Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
(But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)

Reply to this Message

blurp - 04 Aug 2005 14:27 GMT

>> I was able to find some reference to this problem on BrickBoard which
>> suggested lightly tapping the starter when this no-start condition
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>ground. When the starter is engaged the test light will light. Note
>what happens next time the problem occurs.

Will do! I just picked up a test light on the weekend.

Thanks for the tips.
blurp

Reply to this Message

blurp - 10 Aug 2005 16:41 GMT

I have had the "click-no-start" happen again and can add an
observation or two to the list of "knowns".

1. it seems to occur only when the car has been shut off for a short
time (more than 2 minutes, less than 10).

2. it seems to occur when ANY electrical-drawing device is left on in
the car. Last night it wouldn't start after the hazards had been on
for 2 minutes. Sometimes if the radio is left on (even with the key
out and the radio not playing, just the switch in the ON position).

I've had dead battery situations in the past and this battery is FOR
SURE not dead. A dead battery stays dead and letting it sit won't give
you a charge. When the car does start it does so with all the power
and force of a car with a brand new battery.

So is there some IC component that won't engage the starter until the
charge is perfect or something? It's really looking more like a
battery/electrical problem than a starter motor problem. Especially
because the problem ONLY occurs during short stops and NEVER happens
after the car has been sitting for 30 minutes or more.

So often the feeling with some of these problems is that some part of
the car is saying "Well there's SOME power but not as much as I want
so I won't even try".

If you think this IS the battery, is there a specific test that can be
preformed by the shop or do they just test if it holds a charge?

Thanks all,
blurp

Reply to this Message

Andy Coles - 11 Aug 2005 20:19 GMT

Hi Blurp

I dont know whether it is your battery or not however the good news is that
YES a tyre/battery depot or garage (certainly Volvo) should have a battery
tester which not only reads your volts but does it under a discharge as if
you are turning over the starter motor. May be worth a trip.

Your battery may not be dead but it only takes one cell to be dicky and this
may manifest itself under a discharge. For sure it is not much use just
putting a volt meter between the two terminals.

Best of luck

Andy

>I have had the "click-no-start" happen again and can add an
> observation or two to the list of "knowns".
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Thanks all,
> blurp

Reply to this Message

Randy G. - 11 Aug 2005 20:43 GMT

A good battery/repair shop may even have a loaner battery to lend you
to see if it eliminates the problem.

>Hi Blurp
>
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>> Thanks all,
>> blurp

__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvos
'90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
"Shelby" & "Kate"

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blurp - 11 Aug 2005 21:07 GMT

>A good battery/repair shop may even have a loaner battery to lend you
>to see if it eliminates the problem.
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
>'90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
> "Shelby" & "Kate"

Then I guess I'll be taking it into the CanTire tomorrow since it's
their battery.

Thanks for the input!
Blurp

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Michael Pardee - 12 Aug 2005 00:27 GMT

> Hi Blurp
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Andy

I've had a few batteries fail in that way... apparently broken connections
inside the battery. As more current is drawn through it the connections weld
and everything is okay. That is opposite the way bad battery cable
connections behave, where the current increases the oxidation and makes it
worse.

A whack on the battery posts with a hammer (like cracking a walnut) often
gets intermittent batteries working long enough to get the car to a place
the battery can be replaced.

Mike

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