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Car Forum / Volvo Cars / February 2006If I will damage the transmission driving with the overdrive on, until repaired ASAP.
I will be forced to drive in 3rd gear until I can find why the overdrive in my 86 240 DL Volvo is stuck in the ON position. The (automatic transmission) gear shift knob has the on off button for overdrive. The yellow arrow light stay on. This just started an hour ago, and I was forced to drive relatively slowly on the freeway to get to my mom's house. I will have to drive a distance to a repair shop etc. I will obviously try to stay below the red 60 mph (approx) line. I hear a click when trying to disengage the shift column OD button, so I don't know if is the overdrive relay. It is possible that a wire is frayed in the engine area. My transmission is well cared for and seems to work fine. 1986 240 DL (only) 89K miles. I do not need to use OD in my driving, I would be happy to disable it permanently. I will try to find out what is wrong ASAP. But in the meantime, am I doing damage to the transmission ??? > I will be forced to drive in 3rd gear until I can find why the > overdrive in my 86 240 DL Volvo is stuck in the ON position. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > But in the meantime, am I doing damage to the transmission ??? It's unlikely. I think you mean the OD is locked out (that's what the yellow light means), so 3rd is your highest gear. You'll use a lot more fuel and you'll rev the motor harder, which in the short term could be beneficial. Longer term you'll increase engine wear a little because it's constantly spinning faster.  SignatureCheers Andrew <--- Remove The NO and SPAM When Replying ---> >> I will be forced to drive in 3rd gear until I can find why the >> overdrive in my 86 240 DL Volvo is stuck in the ON position. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >beneficial. Longer term you'll increase engine wear a little because >it's constantly spinning faster. Yikes, I had that reversed. I possibly reduced the response potential by the poor reversal of concept in the posting. Thanks, I don't plan on any longer term, but it is difficult to fit in fixing it with what I have on my plate at this time. Thank you for your response. >> I will be forced to drive in 3rd gear until I can find why the >> overdrive in my 86 240 DL Volvo is stuck in the ON position. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> >> But in the meantime, am I doing damage to the transmission ??? Had the same problem - '92 240, 150k. Kept the speed down as already mentioned. Changed out solenoid as it was entirely corroded, also changed relay, etc. This did not work. Dealer was about to try pressure flush but fluid was red and clear and didn't do flush; he was concerned about 'breaking something' else during flush; drained 3 qts of fluid and replaced. Still nothing. As previously recommened in this group, pumping all fluid out and filling at the same time is alternative to pressure flush. During replacement or radiator my indy mechanic pumped all trans fluid. Replaced all fluid and OD is now working normally. Keep your maximum speed to no more than 60mph, and the only thing that will suffer is the fuel economy. I spent several months driving a 240 without O/D, and I generally went 50-55mph to keep the fuel consumption at about 23mpg. Just remember: the 140 series cars had essentially the same gearing and no O/D on the automatics. It was only an option on the standards, and you had to get used to running the engines at 3500RPM going 55-60... Signaturehttp://freevision.org/michael/index.html > Keep your maximum speed to no more than 60mph, and the only > thing that will suffer is the fuel economy. I spent several months [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > It was only an option on the standards, and you had to get used to > running the engines at 3500RPM going 55-60... The OD on my 240 Turbo was out for about 18 months several years ago and guess what it did for my mileage? Absolutely nothing. It was still arouond 22 overall. >> Keep your maximum speed to no more than 60mph, and the only >> thing that will suffer is the fuel economy. I spent several months [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > guess what it did for my mileage? Absolutely nothing. It was still > arouond 22 overall. Mine dropped to about 17 mpg, from the 25 I normally got. That's almost entirely highway driving, cruising at 70-80 mph. >>> Keep your maximum speed to no more than 60mph, and the only >>> thing that will suffer is the fuel economy. I spent several months [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Mine dropped to about 17 mpg, from the 25 I normally got. That's almost > entirely highway driving, cruising at 70-80 mph. That's in line with what I observed when I lost the OD on my 240. Dropped from about 23 to just over 15 (mostly city, some hwy). AC SignatureIn America, through pressure of conformity, there is freedom of choice, but nothing to choose from - Peter Ustinov. >I will be forced to drive in 3rd gear until I can find why the >overdrive in my 86 240 DL Volvo is stuck in the ON position. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >But in the meantime, am I doing damage to the transmission ??? Thanks for the responses. From the Groton site, it looks like the relay is simple enough to pull out and plug back in / replace:by myself. http://www.fcpgroton.com/images/3523804.jpg Getting one soon is a factor, as well as the other potentials. I have seen this posting: Expert:Regis J Easler III Date:12/20/2004 Subject:89 volvo 240 dl overdrive lite Question My overdrive light stays on and the tranny will not shift into 4th gear. I had the catalytic converter replaced recently and some other emmisions work done the car. This problem happened soon after, coincidense? I'm trying to sell the car, can the car run like this? Answer they may have knocked the connector loose for the overdive solenoid on the transmission,or it may be a bad overdrive relay.check the wire under the car on the drivvers side of trans. if this is ok I would replace the relay Relay should be readily available at a wrecking yard. > Relay should be readily available at a wrecking yard. Don't bother with a used one unless you plan to resolder it yourself, often just pulling it from the car or otherwise disturbing it will crack the old solder joints. >>I will be forced to drive in 3rd gear until I can find why the >>overdrive in my 86 240 DL Volvo is stuck in the ON position. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > under the car on the drivvers side of trans. if this is ok I would > replace the relay If they knocked the connector loose the light wouldn't be on on the dash. The relay is the usual culprit, they're very easy to repair if you can solder, or you can just replace for about 50 bucks. It's one of those things that will almost certainly fail on any 240 given time. >> a bad overdrive relay > It's one of > those things that will almost certainly fail on any 240 given time. Only on the ones with stick shifts ;) SignatureCheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA, USA Owned '67,'68,'71,'74,'79,'81,'87,'93,'95 & '01 Volvos. The '67,'74,'79,'87,'95 and '01 through European Delivery. http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/volvo.html >>>a bad overdrive relay > >>It's one of >>those things that will almost certainly fail on any 240 given time. > > Only on the ones with stick shifts ;) Actually I see a lot more failed overdrive relays on the ones with automatics, perhaps because it's used a lot more being normally engaged. > Actually I see a lot more failed overdrive relays on the ones with > automatics, perhaps because it's used a lot more being normally engaged. I have never experienced an overdrive relay failure on any of my 10 automatics. I don't hear any transmission relays clicking either. SignatureCheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA, USA Owned '67,'68,'71,'74,'79,'81,'87,'93,'95 & '01 Volvos. The '67,'74,'79,'87,'95 and '01 through European Delivery. http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/volvo.html > > Actually I see a lot more failed overdrive relays on the ones with > > automatics, perhaps because it's used a lot more being normally engaged. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > The '67,'74,'79,'87,'95 and '01 through European Delivery. > http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/volvo.html I'll bet that the people with high failure rates for the standard-shift O/D relays don't use the clutch when they engage the O/D. You don't *have* to do it, but it puts a lot less strain on all the components, including the relay. Signaturehttp://freevision.org/michael/index.html > I'll bet that the people with high failure rates for the > standard-shift O/D relays don't use the clutch when they engage > the O/D. You don't *have* to do it, but it puts a lot less strain > on all the components, including the relay. Oh, I'd love to hear the physics behind how that "strains" the relay since the solenoid will draw the same current whether or not the clutch is engaged. Should I put the clutch in when starting to save wear and tear on the ignition switch too? Bill > I'll bet that the people with high failure rates for the > standard-shift O/D relays don't use the clutch when they engage > the O/D. You don't *have* to do it, but it puts a lot less strain > on all the components, including the relay. How can the clutch affect the relay. There is not connection. The only way it would have any effect is if the OD drew more electric current when the clutch was not depressed and that doesn't make any sense at all. SignatureCheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA, USA Owned '67,'68,'71,'74,'79,'81,'87,'93,'95 & '01 Volvos. The '67,'74,'79,'87,'95 and '01 through European Delivery. http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/volvo.html >>>Actually I see a lot more failed overdrive relays on the ones with >>>automatics, perhaps because it's used a lot more being normally engaged. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > the O/D. You don't *have* to do it, but it puts a lot less strain > on all the components, including the relay. That's just not true, the relay has no idea whether you've used the clutch or not, it's part of the electrical circuit, which is isolated from the hydraulic circuit. Yes it's a good idea to clutch but it makes absolutely no difference at all on for the electrical bits. > >>>Actually I see a lot more failed overdrive relays on the ones with > >>>automatics, perhaps because it's used a lot more being normally engaged. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > from the hydraulic circuit. Yes it's a good idea to clutch but it makes > absolutely no difference at all on for the electrical bits. Here's my reasoning: the relay has to engage to power the solenoid. If the solenoid is working harder, the current draw through the relay will be higher, for longer - about twice as long as when you use the clutch. This is a small thing, but since we're talking about relays that fail because of cracked solder joints, any extra heat, with attendant expansion and contraction, will shorten the relay life. Just because the relay doesn't *directly* engage the O/D doesn't mean that the O/D engagement makes no difference. In fact, someone already mentioned thinking the failure rate would be higher for automatics, because those relays get more use. More engagements, or longer ones - both are likely to be contributing to those cracked joints. Signaturehttp://freevision.org/michael/index.html > Here's my reasoning: the relay has to engage to power the solenoid. > If the solenoid is working harder, the current draw through the relay [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > those > cracked joints. But the solenoid doesn't work any harder, all it is is a valve, the electromagnet coil attracts a metal plunger which slides back and allows fluid to flow, when power is removed a spring returns the plunger, blocking the flow of fluid. The fluid pressure is generated by a cam driven pump on the input side of the overdrive and regulated by a spring loaded valve. Whether one clutches or not affects how much force the band brake and cone clutch in the overdrive have to deal with when they engage, forcing the engine speed and output shaft speed to equalize to the new ratio, but it won't affect the hydraulic pressure and even if they did the solenoid is designed so that even a huge increase in pressure would have a negligible effect on current draw. I'm the one who said the automatic OD relays may fail more because of more use, but it's because they're normally powered up and engaged any time the car is running so they tend to experience more thermal cycles but even so I doubt the difference is great, it's just based on my personal observations. >>Actually I see a lot more failed overdrive relays on the ones with >>automatics, perhaps because it's used a lot more being normally engaged. > > I have never experienced an overdrive relay failure on any of my 10 > automatics. I don't hear any transmission relays clicking either. From what I recall, you don't keep your cars very long. The relays usually start to conk out when the car is 12-15 years old at around 160-200K miles. >I will be forced to drive in 3rd gear until I can find why the >overdrive in my 86 240 DL Volvo is stuck in the ON position. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >But in the meantime, am I doing damage to the transmission ??? Well, a thank you for the assistance to all. I did replace all the fuses with new 16A fuses. I am not perfectly certain if certain differently rated fuses are better in some spots, I will research that separately. The fuses did not resolve it, so I sprang for a Galpin Motors Volvo OEM overdrive relay switch and the replacement of it seems to be holding. It took a while to pull apart the dashboard/glove compartment to find it, and it was on a spring hook, which I only taped it up after changing (I did not try to get it back on the clamp thing)., but it was a big relief to see the damn light go out. I don't plan on ever pressing that OD button again (levity). I will pursue what parts would be wise to stock up on with a car that is almost 20 years old, in anticipation of needing them. On line prices show $30 plus ship and no tax for the part. Galpin charges $80 with tax, but I could not wait until sometime next week for it to arrive across country. Interesting that the on line unit is a "non OEM" "Hella" 3523804. So I buy a Volvo OEM unit and the one that I take out of the car, and was what was put in there when the car was assembled….. is a Hella, German made and not stamped Volvo OEM. HA. No way to pay a presented invoice for the help and consultation, but do know that the advice has relieved my burden, it would seem, and permitted me to take care of an elderly woman who needs the care, without going crazy without a freeway able car. Thanks. Sofar, with 25 minutes of driving , the Relay-to-Solenoid wire has not acted up. I checked the trans fluid, while under the car - looking for frayed wires (and finding only metal encasements) - this morning and it is clear, not cherry colored or brownish. After this strain, I am going to put in new trans fluid. Thanks again, much. |
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