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Car Forum / Volvo Cars / March 2006any ideas to this problem?
1993 Volvo 240 Estate (unleaded) The car stalls when slowing down - slowing down for road humps, or other drivers or coming up to a junction. Takes a minute or two to restart the engine or sometimes up to 10 minutes. A second before it stalls, the engine warning lamp lights up. There are no errors coming up on diagnostic console and it comes up with 1-1-1 clear. Parts we have changed... Ignition coil Air mass meter Thermostat Rear exhaust Distributor cap spark plugs and lead set Fuel filter Had the AA recovery out yesterday and the guy suggested thats it is possible the ignition module. So we will buy that part tomorrow. Any thoughts or experiences on this problem? The car maybe be old, but it works fine other than this problem. There is one minor problem that it needs a new battery, the current one requires charging every few days and its not holding its charge. Could this be linked? if the car runs normally until you try to come to a stop as described, I think most of the items you've changed could have been ruled out ahead of time... That is, you'd expect running problems with a bad ignition coil or other ignition parts. Not that putting in new plugs and ignition wires and such is bad, just not likely to have been the cause of your problem.... Sounds more like a fuel mixture problem, perhaps a massive air leak causing it to run too lean at a stop, or maybe the idle control valve?.... For what it's worth, I've had occasional problems with the external fuel pump on my 89' 240 wagon, and have become quite adept at changing the pump. In my case, I usually know a problem is developing when the car begins to hesitate on acceleration, or loses power, or even just plain dies and won't restart... A new pump and I'm on the way again. Have replaced both pumps twice, and the external pump a third time by itself. m9876c at yahoo dot com > if the car runs normally until you try to come to a stop as > described, I think most of the items you've changed could have been > ruled out ahead of time... That is, you'd expect running problems > with a bad ignition coil or other ignition parts. Not that putting in > new plugs and ignition wires and such is bad, just not likely to have > been the cause of your problem.... Some of the parts we changed like the spark set and rear exhaust were just parts that needed to be changed anyway, I wanted to add them to be clear on what we have done. :-) > Sounds more like a fuel mixture problem, perhaps a massive air leak > causing it to run too lean at a stop, or maybe the idle control > valve?.... We did consider the possibility of funny fuel and changed the brand we used from BP to Shell but that made no difference. Oil is at the correct levels (although not sure what oil we use). Is the idle control valve easy to replace? If it is faulty, is it something which comes up on the diagnostics? We are currently clear from error numbers. > For what it's worth, I've had occasional problems with the external > fuel pump on my 89' 240 wagon, and have become quite adept at [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > way again. Have replaced both pumps twice, and the external pump a > third time by itself. My Dad asked the recovery guy whether it could be the fuel pump, he said its possible, but unlikely. Cannot keep throwing money at this car and we obviously cannot go on much longer. £50 here and there really puts a dent in the finances. If we cannot fix it then will have to save up and put it through a volvo garage. At £60 an hour it will not come cheap. > 1993 Volvo 240 Estate (unleaded) > > The car stalls when slowing down - slowing down for road humps, or other > drivers or coming up to a junction. Takes a minute or two to restart the > engine or sometimes up to 10 minutes. A second before it stalls, the engine > warning lamp lights up. A hunch to me would be a loose connection somewhere which becomes open circuit under negetive g, or speed bumps, as you say it will not re start for upto 10mins after it has stalled. It should be relatively easy to determine if you are lacking fuel or sparks whilst it will not re start. Stop throwing new parts blindly at it. Tim.. >> 1993 Volvo 240 Estate (unleaded) >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Stop throwing new parts blindly at it. Well we are not throwing parts blindly at it. Unfortunately we have gone on the advice from others on what to try. The last advice was to change the air mass meter (as that was giving an error code anyway) this advice was from a volvo engineer. How do we determine if we are lacking fuel upon trying to restart? > >> 1993 Volvo 240 Estate (unleaded) > >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > How do we determine if we are lacking fuel upon trying to restart? Crank it for a time and smell the exhuast or pull the plugs and see if they are wet. Really if you have to ask this kind of rudimentary question i am not surprised you are swapping parts according to what Tom, Dick or Harry suggests, rather than diagnosing the problem and treating the symptom. Do the fuel pumps run when it wont restart? Have you checked both pumps are working? That the transfer tube isnt holed? Have you opened the fuel pump relay and resoldered the joints? All these are very common intermittent faults on a 240. Tim.. > Crank it for a time and smell the exhuast or pull the plugs and see > if they are wet. > > Really if you have to ask this kind of rudimentary question i am not > surprised you are swapping parts according to what Tom, Dick or Harry > suggests, rather than diagnosing the problem and treating the symptom. Well we are not car mechanics in this household and have to go on the advice of others. not everybody is knowledgable about these things. > Do the fuel pumps run when it wont restart? Have you checked both > pumps are working? That the transfer tube isnt holed? Have you > opened the fuel pump relay and resoldered the joints? All these are > very common intermittent faults on a 240. To my knowledge they do run, but I will have to confirm this with the driver. >>> 1993 Volvo 240 Estate (unleaded) >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > How do we determine if we are lacking fuel upon trying to restart? The easiest way is to spray a couple second burst of starting fluid into the air cleaner (I usually spray the filter with the stuff.) Close the air cleaner up immediately and try restarting. If the engine runs for a few seconds and dies you can be sure the problem is fuel starvation. Of course, the fuel pump relay is notorious... but the part about slowing down triggering it makes me wonder. It sure would be nice to know what the fuel pressure is doing when it conks out. Mike > The easiest way is to spray a couple second burst of starting fluid > into the air cleaner (I usually spray the filter with the stuff.) > Close the air cleaner up immediately and try restarting. If the > engine runs for a few seconds and dies you can be sure the problem is > fuel starvation. Thankyou I shall pass that on > Of course, the fuel pump relay is notorious... but the part about > slowing down triggering it makes me wonder. It sure would be nice to > know what the fuel pressure is doing when it conks out. If there is an open road, the car will run fine for miles and miles. If we can get rid of road humps, slower drivers and junctions there would be no problem ;-) I suspect an air leak, in the big flexi-pipe that connects between the air mass meter and the engine. It's cracked in one of the folds and you won't find it unless you look closely and carefully. It's sucking extra unmetered air and running lean. ----- -RL > 1993 Volvo 240 Estate (unleaded) > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > needs a new battery, the current one requires charging every few days and > its not holding its charge. Could this be linked? > I suspect an air leak, in the big flexi-pipe that connects between > the air mass meter and the engine. It's cracked in one of the folds > and you won't find it unless you look closely and carefully. > > It's sucking extra unmetered air and running lean. Thankyou Robert, shall check this one this evening. I know the pipe you mean, its a large corrugated type pipe? >1993 Volvo 240 Estate (unleaded) >The car stalls when slowing down - slowing down for road humps, or other >drivers or coming up to a junction. Takes a minute or two to restart the >engine or sometimes up to 10 minutes. A second before it stalls, the engine >warning lamp lights up. [ ... ] Changed the air filter recently? Are you seeing any black smoke when you restart? If so, it's flooding; address that issue--clogged air filter, bad sensor, or leaking injectors. If you're not seeing black smoke, it's probably an intake leak as others have mentioned. However, that usually doesn't require a lot of cranking when restarting. Gary  SignatureGary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net I don't need an iPod, I have an IQ. A worthwhile endeavour: http://www.thebrestcancersite.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/CTDSites > Changed the air filter recently? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > others have mentioned. However, that usually doesn't require a lot of > cranking when restarting. No black smoke as far as I recall when I have been in the car. I shall put this sugestion forward, thanks very much. > 1993 Volvo 240 Estate (unleaded) > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > needs a new battery, the current one requires charging every few days and > its not holding its charge. Could this be linked? Very well could be a low battery and the alternator is not delivering enough voltage at low rpm to keep ignition going. If you are applying the brakes to slow down this takes even more voltage from the ignition because it lights up your brake lights. Do you have a way to hook up a voltmeter while driving to see what the voltage actually is while slowing down? Allen More likely that the regulator/brushes on the alternator are worn out or the earth lead from alternator body to engine block has become detatched. All the best, Peter. 700/900/90 Register Keeper, Volvo Owners Club (UK). >> 1993 Volvo 240 Estate (unleaded) >> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Allen ............... . There is one minor problem that it > > needs a new battery, the current one requires charging every few days and > > its not holding its charge. Could this be linked? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > lights up your brake lights. Do you have a way to hook up a voltmeter while > driving to see what the voltage actually is while slowing down? I back that suggestion. And why throw all that other stuff at it when it needs at least a battery anyway? > Very well could be a low battery and the alternator is not delivering > enough voltage at low rpm to keep ignition going. If you are > applying the brakes to slow down this takes even more voltage from > the ignition because it lights up your brake lights. Do you have a > way to hook up a voltmeter while driving to see what the voltage > actually is while slowing down? Thats an interesting thought. When the AA were called out the other day and it stalled my dad could not restart the car at all as the battery was dead he had recharged it a few days before but obviously the weak charge is getting weaker. The AA guy put a quick charge on the battery then followed him home. Had a look at the car, didn't think the battery was the cause (although the battery is a problem in itself) and suggested this ignition module. I am sure we can hook up a voltmeter to it for a while we have a couple here. I guess just attach it to the battery and monitor the output. If the leads are long enough, could pass it from side of bonnet into car window so passenger car check while driver is driving. Hello A mechanic taught me this long ago and it has always held true. If the car engine is dying slowly it is a fuel problem, fuel starvation or too much air not enough fuel. If the car engine jerks violently and dies it is an electrical problem. Sounds to me to be fuel related as you did not mention any violent jerking of the car. It could be the fuel pump relay cutting out and starving you of fuel, and it could be the flexi-pipe that connects between the air mass meter and the engine. When a car is slowing down, then engine will rock slightly, this could be opening a circuit or a crack in a hose. Focus in this direction. Hope that helps. Russ > Hello > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > When a car is slowing down, then engine will rock slightly, this could > be opening a circuit or a crack in a hose. Focus in this direction. HI Russ, thanks for the reply. Been getting quite a bit of help on this prolem and the warning signs are now pointing to a faulty fuel pump relay. Although it could probably also be one of fifty alternative things. Going to borrow a new relay in the morning to test. |
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