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Car Forum / Volvo Cars / July 2006

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My Walmart Oil Change From Hell

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Don - 25 Jul 2006 17:23 GMT
I just went through the oil change from hell. I figured Walmart could
at least change the oil and filter on my S80. WRONG!

After waiting for an hour and twenty minutes they inform me they don't
have the Fram filter but said if I go buy it they would deduct what I
paid from their total bill. Like and idiot I went and bought it. Came
back to Walmart and began the wait process again.

After 30 minutes and draining out all the oil they tell me they don't
have the correct tool needed to remove my filter. So they put in
Mobile One Synthetic which is what I wanted and left the old filter in
place. It gets worse.

The guy checking my oil level then proceeded to snap the dip stick at
the top so he couldn't check the oil level. We put just the top of the
dip stick back in place. It gets worse.

After visiting 3 auto parts stores I realized I would have to go to
Volvo for a dip stick. It gets worse. Volvo then proceeds to tell me I
can't get that dip stick anymore because they redesigned the tubing it
goes into. So they give me a quote for $129.31 for parts and labor.

I took the quote to the manager of Walmart and he verified everything
I just said above and gave me $129.31 in cash.

They asked me what other cars I own and I said a Mercedes 500SL and a
Saab. He assured me I can bring those cars in. I guess stupid really
is embedded on my forehead now. What the hell was I thinking?

Question: So here I sit with clean Mobile One Synthetic (free of
charge of course) and an old dirty filter. Volvo said they will not
have to remove the oil to do the fix. Should I purge all this new oil
and start over with someone who actually knows how to change the oil
on an S80? Can I have the filter switched out quickly and save all
that oil?

Don
Clay - 25 Jul 2006 17:55 GMT
> I just went through the oil change from hell. I figured Walmart could
> at least change the oil and filter on my S80. WRONG!
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> Don

You can swap the filter and replace what spills. But there is the matter
of the litre or so of dinosaur oil that was left in the filter.

Have the dealer change it, put the sticker back on your forehead (*g*),
and take the bill to Walmart so they can reimburse you for the proper
oil change.

(Not sure if I got this from a post here so apologies if it has already
been posted)
http://www.nbc4.tv/video/9152183/detail.html
or
http://mfile.akamai.com/12924/wmv/vod.ibsys.com/2006/0503/9152183.200k.asx
John Horner - 25 Jul 2006 18:03 GMT
> They asked me what other cars I own and I said a Mercedes 500SL and a
> Saab. He assured me I can bring those cars in. I guess stupid really
> is embedded on my forehead now. What the hell was I thinking?

You have an S80, a 500SL and a Saab and you go to WalMart for service

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

In life there are lessons, those lessons will repeat until we pass the
test.  This lesson is simple.  Either do the work yourself or find a
trustworthy dealer or independent mechanic to look after your cars for
you.   Period.  No chains.  No coupon specials. No Sears.  No WalMart.

Have a look at NBC LA's recent series on Jiffy Lube:

http://www.nbc4.tv/mechanicinvestigation/index.html

John
~^ beancounter ~^ - 25 Jul 2006 18:49 GMT
"You have an S80, a 500SL and a Saab and you go to WalMart for service

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? "

thats the "mode of thinking" that draggs the us economy down...use the
cheapest place around for anything.....be it wal mart, or job out
sourcing...then scratch our heads when things go wrong.....i wonder if
the volvo dealers are worried wal mart may put their service bays out
of business..??.....

> > They asked me what other cars I own and I said a Mercedes 500SL and a
> > Saab. He assured me I can bring those cars in. I guess stupid really
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> John
Don - 25 Jul 2006 22:03 GMT
>"You have an S80, a 500SL and a Saab and you go to WalMart for service
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>the volvo dealers are worried wal mart may put their service bays out
>of business..??.....

Sorry but this one got me laughing. We're talking about an oil change
not a new turbo charger. I never take these cars to dealers for oil
changes. Mercedes wants almost $200 for an oil change. Volvo is
totally incompetent of providing decent service and Saab service has
also plummeted since GM took over.

After watching the video on Jiffy Lube I realized how honest Walmart
actually was with me. They could have tossed the oil filter insert I
bought away and said have a nice day. They didn't. They were honest
about it. They are also paying every penny of the new dip stick and
tubing and labor. They could have just insisted they buy only the dip
stick which is $22.00 and told me the fact that Volvo has redesigned
the tubing isn't their issue.  But they insisted I get a Volvo quote
for everything and then proceeded to pay for it.

Lastly, your comment about my mode of thinking drags down the US
economy was honestly the funniest. I own a fairly large corporation
and I didn't get there by tossing money away. Even after my oil change
from hell I have nothing but respect for Walmart who has implemented
one of the best business models on the planet. You can scream bloody
murder about them but that would be like me telling Bill Gates where
he went wrong.

I'm really glad I posted this and very glad I saw the video on Jiffy
Lube. It makes me realize that a Walmart oil change probably wasn't
quite as stupid as I first thought. Thanks for opening my eyes.
Alex Zepeda - 26 Jul 2006 09:36 GMT
> Sorry but this one got me laughing. We're talking about an oil change not
> a new turbo charger. I never take these cars to dealers for oil changes.
> Mercedes wants almost $200 for an oil change. Volvo is totally incompetent
> of providing decent service and Saab service has also plummeted since GM
> took over.

Well considering that your oil change cost about $200 (which WM paid.. but
regardless), paying $200 up front seems like a lot less of a hassle.  Then
again, I don't think that anyone suggested you go exclusively to the
dealer for oil changes.  Simply go to a competent mechanic (if they're
competent, they're not working at WalMart).

> Lastly, your comment about my mode of thinking drags down the US economy
> was honestly the funniest. I own a fairly large corporation and I didn't
> get there by tossing money away. Even after my oil change from hell I have
> nothing but respect for Walmart who has implemented one of the best
> business models on the planet. You can scream bloody murder about them but
> that would be like me telling Bill Gates where he went wrong.

WalMart does have a brilliant business model.  Make the government give
you sweet subsidies, and then stick them with the cost for all sorts of
other things.  It sucks for pretty much everyone else however.

Then again, you assume that by paying less up front you're saving money
overall.  Consider the quality of most of the stuff WM hawks, consider the
cost to the local economy (yay for minimum wage jobs with no benefits)...
yeah.  Sounds like a great savings.  Is WM paying for the time it'll take
you to get your car to the dealer to replace the dipstick?  Are they
paying for the labour to change the oil filter?  How about for the gas to
and from the various shops, and your time spent tracking down all the
quotes and such?

Microsoft has gone wrong in plenty of areas, consider for a moment all of
the failed products they've released.  Remember Microsoft Bob?  Microsoft
Sound System?  Eh.... not to mention all of the exploits that have been
released into the wild for MS Office this month.

Signature

alex

Don - 26 Jul 2006 15:52 GMT
>Well considering that your oil change cost about $200 (which WM paid.. but
>regardless), paying $200 up front seems like a lot less of a hassle.  Then
>again, I don't think that anyone suggested you go exclusively to the
>dealer for oil changes.  Simply go to a competent mechanic (if they're
>competent, they're not working at WalMart).

>WalMart does have a brilliant business model.  Make the government give
>you sweet subsidies, and then stick them with the cost for all sorts of
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>Sound System?  Eh.... not to mention all of the exploits that have been
>released into the wild for MS Office this month.

After reading this post I'm willing to bet you're either from Canada
or Europe. You probably belong to a union. Speaking of unions that is
the number one reason Mercedes Benz is now ranked lower than one
American car company in quality and customer satisfaction. Perhaps you
should email Bill Gates and tell him where he screwed up. Also please
show us where Walmart gives its employees no benefits. That simply is
not the case. Are they equal to your union benefits? No I'm sure they
aren't. But don't say they give no benefits. It blows any credibility
you may have had.
Steve - 26 Jul 2006 20:16 GMT
> >Well considering that your oil change cost about $200 (which WM
> >paid.. but regardless), paying $200 up front seems like a lot less of
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> After reading this post I'm willing to bet you're either from Canada
> or Europe.

Although humans are valued in Canada and 'Europe' (think you could narrow
that one down next time?) they are also respected in the United States as
well.

> You probably belong to a union.

Yes, clearly the only people who care about the workers and their
contributation to the economy are union workers.  Very good call!

> Speaking of unions

(after all, you did bring them up)

>that is
> the number one reason Mercedes Benz is now ranked lower than one
> American car company in quality and customer satisfaction.

Hummm   Quality is how well the vehicles are screwed together.  Humm whets
the worst vehicle Mercedes builds?  Could it be...yes, I believe it is the
ML class built by good old NASCAR watching, church going, 'mericans workers
in a union free right to work red state.  Customer satisfaction...I do
believe that has quite a bit to do with how the customer is treated when
something goes wrong with the poorly engineered car that the workers, union
or not tend to screw together exactly as management wants them to.  Are you
saying, my good man, that damnable unions have infiltrated every Mercedes
Benz dealer in the United States?  Hark! We should have our man Bush do a
signing statement about that!

Perhaps you
> should email Bill Gates and tell him where he screwed up.

So now you request a high level critique of the business practices of an
established technology firm as well as impose a anti union rant upon us?

Also please
> show us where Walmart gives its employees no benefits.

Wal Mart gives almost no benefits, and they cost more then most part time
employees can afford.

Wal Mart has taken many people off welfare, as the programs designed by
President Clinton and the congress working together devised.  The programs
envisioned moms working and gaining skills, while the gov't would provide
health care, and perhaps in some cases income as well.

The issue is that the people so employed have not due to whatever reason
developed sufficient skills to get better jobs, and the country is still
subsidizing Wal Mart.

That simply is
> not the case.

If a worker has the years and is given the hours they are permitted to buy
benefits at a higher cost then many can afford, that correct.

>>Are they equal to your union benefits?

Gee, Don are the benefits at wal mart equal to the benefits congressmen
enjoy?  Federal workers?  Members of the armed services?  Your benefits?

No I'm sure they
> aren't. But don't say they give no benefits. It blows any credibility
> you may have had.

Thanks for your reasoned analysis.

No, I belong to no unions.
Don - 26 Jul 2006 21:12 GMT
>> After reading this post I'm willing to bet you're either from Canada
>> or Europe.
>
>Although humans are valued in Canada and 'Europe' (think you could narrow
>that one down next time?) they are also respected in the United States as
>well.
Can someone interpret this statement? It makes about as much sense as
no matter where you go there you'll be.

>Yes, clearly the only people who care about the workers and their
>contributation to the economy are union workers.  Very good call!

Did I say that? No. I said he probably belongs to a union. Get a clue.

>>that is
>> the number one reason Mercedes Benz is now ranked lower than one
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>Benz dealer in the United States?  Hark! We should have our man Bush do a
>signing statement about that!

It's a well known fact that Mercedes has on many occassions threatened
to move it's production plants to Poland from Germany if the unions
didn't back off. hmmmm using  your bright logic let's look at Toyota
and Honda's built in the USA by non union labor. Church going to boot.
Funny how a non union worker can assemble things without the mighty
union to show him how.

> Perhaps you
>> should email Bill Gates and tell him where he screwed up.
>
>So now you request a high level critique of the business practices of an
>established technology firm as well as impose a anti union rant upon us?

Another stupid statement. No further comment needed.

> Also please
>> show us where Walmart gives its employees no benefits.
>
>Wal Mart gives almost no benefits, and they cost more then most part time
>employees can afford.

You seem to know a lot about walmart. Can you now show me what company
pays part time employees enough money to afford their own benefits?
Better yet just show me part time employees who even get benefits? Yes
there are a slight few but those are the exception. Have you bothered
to read a newspaper in the past decade?

>Wal Mart has taken many people off welfare, as the programs designed by
>President Clinton and the congress working together devised.  The programs
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>developed sufficient skills to get better jobs, and the country is still
>subsidizing Wal Mart.

Laughing sorry.

> That simply is
>> not the case.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Gee, Don are the benefits at wal mart equal to the benefits congressmen
>enjoy?  Federal workers?  Members of the armed services?  Your benefits?
So let me get this right. In your small world you feel all Americans
should get the same benefits. Is that correct? I think there is a name
for that ..... socialism. The USA thank God is not socialist so deal
with it. Should we all wear the same clothes also? If I buy a wool
suit should everyone be able to buy one also? Give me a break.

> No I'm sure they
>> aren't. But don't say they give no benefits.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>No, I belong to no unions.
Johan Plane - 27 Jul 2006 21:59 GMT
> >> After reading this post I'm willing to bet you're either from Canada
> >> or Europe.
[quoted text clipped - 87 lines]
> >
> >No, I belong to no unions.

Didn't Mercedes quality problems begin with the company changing their name from
Daimler-Benz to Daimler-Chry...r ?? One can only wonder what influences that
came ino the company.

Johan Plane
Uppsala, Sweden
- where all have the same social benefits regrdless of whether whole- or
parttime employed, whether union- or nonunion worker...And with no higher tax
pressure than in the US, when all costs for education, health insurances and
such are taken into account.
Alex Zepeda - 28 Jul 2006 05:21 GMT
> After reading this post I'm willing to bet you're either from Canada or
> Europe. You probably belong to a union.

Well, that's two bets you'd loose.  Colour me shocked.

> Speaking of unions that is the number one reason Mercedes Benz is now
> ranked lower than one American car company in quality and customer
> satisfaction.

That asinine statement is like saying unions are to blame for the mess
that GM's in now.  No, the problem is that GM builds shitty cars.  Hell,
there was a Frontline episode about the mess that GM's in now.  One of the
GM veeps made some comment that labour costs aren't dramatically higher
for GM when compared to their competition.  As far as I'm concerned, GM
knew that they'd have to make good on the benefits packages they've
offered for the better part of thirty years now.  In those thirty years,
you'd think that maybe, just maybe they could have produced a few
profitable, quality, popular cars.  Take the Fiero for instance.  When
they stopped making it, there was talk about how Americans didn't want a
sporty two seater.  Of course, the Miata

> Perhaps you should email Bill Gates and tell him where he
> screwed up.

Why?  Opinions are a dime a dozen, and I'm sure he already knows where
he's screwed up.  The general emphasis on marketing over quality is a good
place to start.  The severity of the exploits released for Windows and
Office are a pretty negative impact.  Look at the various state and local
governments that have standardized on non-Microsoft file formats.

> Also please show us where Walmart gives its employees no
> benefits. That simply is not the case. Are they equal to your union
> benefits? No I'm sure they aren't. But don't say they give no benefits.
> It blows any credibility you may have had.

Well, let's see.  They've encouraged employees to use Medicare and
other welfare programs as a means of sustenance. Sure, they provide
benefits, if you work full time.  They'll try their damndest to schedule
you just shy of full-time however (and thus disqualify you for benefits).

If you think that WM's burden on the state welfare systems isn't
significant enough that you'd have to pay higher taxes to make up for
it... think again.

Signature

alex

~^ beancounter ~^ - 28 Jul 2006 05:29 GMT
wal mart should stick with what they do best...sell
crappy goods from asia for 200% mark ups, and employ
un educated folks at minium wage...i would recomend
they stay away from servicing high end autos....its a
bit too much for them...

> > After reading this post I'm willing to bet you're either from Canada or
> > Europe. You probably belong to a union.
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> significant enough that you'd have to pay higher taxes to make up for
> it... think again.
Don - 28 Jul 2006 15:19 GMT
>That asinine statement is like saying unions are to blame for the mess
>that GM's in now.  No, the problem is that GM builds shitty cars.  Hell,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>they stopped making it, there was talk about how Americans didn't want a
>sporty two seater.  Of course, the Miata

GM has been raped and pillaged by the unions and I agree that
management is worthless also. GM never offered anything in terms of
benefits. Unions either got what they wanted or shut GM down. This is
still going on.  Legalized extortion. Unions are the number one reason
the entire airline industry is in the situation it finds itself.

>> Perhaps you should email Bill Gates and tell him where he
>> screwed up.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Office are a pretty negative impact.  Look at the various state and local
>governments that have standardized on non-Microsoft file formats.

I think my point must have sailed right over your head.

>Well, let's see.  They've encouraged employees to use Medicare and
>other welfare programs as a means of sustenance. Sure, they provide
>benefits, if you work full time.  They'll try their damndest to schedule
>you just shy of full-time however (and thus disqualify you for benefits).

Again you're talking total BS and have a deep lack of understanding on
how the American system works. You're screaming the union propaganda
so well it makes me think you wrote it.

>If you think that WM's burden on the state welfare systems isn't
>significant enough that you'd have to pay higher taxes to make up for
>it... think again.

I'll bet you can't wait for the day Walmart is finally defeated by the
Unions. Have you tried to organize Microsoft also?
~^ beancounter ~^ - 28 Jul 2006 15:57 GMT
if you study the history of unions in america, you will see it is the
only reason most employees have medical, vacation, and limited
hours/breaks today...duh....i wouldn't be too quick to deamonize
all union activity...

> GM has been raped and pillaged by the unions

> Unions are the number one reason
> the entire airline industry is in the situation it finds itself.
>
> I'll bet you can't wait for the day Walmart is finally defeated by the
> Unions. Have you tried to organize Microsoft also?
Don - 28 Jul 2006 16:32 GMT
>if you study the history of unions in america, you will see it is the
>only reason most employees have medical, vacation, and limited
>hours/breaks today...duh....i wouldn't be too quick to deamonize
>all union activity...

Most Americans have medical, vacation etc because they work for a
company that provides them. The overall bulk of this is provided to
non-union employees of private companies. Next in line are the
recipients of government medicare/medicaid programs. Next are
government employees and way down the list are employees of unionized
companies. This is in terms of over all numbers.

I'm sorry but you will have a hard time convincing me of any value a
union brings to the table in 2006. I've seen too many industries
totally raped by these organizations. Look at France. They basically
shut the economy down over allowing employers the right to more easily
fire young workers. The government finally repealed the law. By the
way  we shut down our French office and now service France through our
German offices. But even in Germany it takes us 6 to 12 months and a
lot of money to get rid of a bad employee. It's no wonder the French
economy has been on a steady downhill slide for two decades.
~^ beancounter ~^ - 28 Jul 2006 17:51 GMT
and why do co's provide these benefits? out of their
concern for employees? do you think they would
provide these benefits if they wer not forced to?

thanx to unions and collective bargining power.(over the
last 200 years)....they must to be compettitive...

> Most Americans have medical, vacation etc because they work for a
> company that provides them.
Don - 28 Jul 2006 18:11 GMT
>and why do co's provide these benefits? out of their
>concern for employees? do you think they would
>provide these benefits if they wer not forced to?
>
>thanx to unions and collective bargining power.(over the
>last 200 years)....they must to be compettitive...

The reason my company provides these benefits has nothing to do with
unions and everything to do with competition for good employees. Now
if you want to credit the unions for what we provide our employees
then God bless you. You have that right. But I can tell you flat out
unions don't enter into the calculation. Not for us anyway.

I find it interesting that you credit unions with being competitive.
Do you think United Airlines pilot unions were thinking about being
competitive when they forced UAL into the 1999/2000 contract that made
them the highest paid in the entire industry? That's not competition
it's extortion and it backfired big time. 3 years in bankruptcy.
Pensions that are now worthless and massive pay cuts. The flying
public doesn't quite support what United was trying to implement.

In ten years or so none of this will matter. Companies (Including GM)
are moving slowly away from being the health care provider or their
employees. Over time this will put so much pressure on the federal
government that the USA will finally fall to socialized medicine.
Although I think this will be great for those who are denied health
care in this country it will also mean we start waiting in line like
Canadians for low tech health care. My neighbor is a surgeon from
Toronto and he says we have more MRI machines in our small pocket
outside Denver than the whole of Ontario. Americans with health care
don't wait for high tech procedures. We're spoiled in that regard.
However, I do think having 45 million uninsured is unacceptable. I
hope the USA will combine what's right with the Canadian system and
what's right with our current system and create something of a mix.
Otherwise we won't like it. Side note: we provide health care
insurance for our Canadian employees (even though Canada provides
health care) just to bring them up to USA equivalents. i.e. drugs,
dental, optical, etc.
~^ beancounter ~^ - 28 Jul 2006 18:17 GMT
go to school and take a history class or two.....you have
a lot to learn.......

"The reason my company provides these benefits has nothing to do with
unions and everything to do with competition for good employees. Now
if you want to credit the unions for what we provide our employees
then God bless you. You have that right. But I can tell you flat out
unions don't enter into the calculation. Not for us anyway. "

> >and why do co's provide these benefits? out of their
> >concern for employees? do you think they would
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> health care) just to bring them up to USA equivalents. i.e. drugs,
> dental, optical, etc.
Don - 28 Jul 2006 18:22 GMT
>go to school and take a history class or two.....you have
>a lot to learn.......

Thanks for the advice. Anything else?
~^ beancounter ~^ - 28 Jul 2006 19:40 GMT
nope, I think that should do the trick...I would hate to think that
the thousands of lives lost, during the early years of union
fights for collective bargining were lost for nothing...I am sure
they will cover that in any labor union history class...fires,
shootings, bombings...there is a lot of violence that will be
covered....only 2-3 hundred years of history to get to where
american workers and the us economy is today...imho, of
course....

> >go to school and take a history class or two.....you have
> >a lot to learn.......
> >
> Thanks for the advice. Anything else?
Don - 28 Jul 2006 20:00 GMT
>nope, I think that should do the trick...I would hate to think that
>the thousands of lives lost, during the early years of union
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>american workers and the us economy is today...imho, of
>course....
I've learned something already from you. American labor unions began
before our country did. I never knew that. Thanks for the
enlightenment.
~^ beancounter ~^ - 28 Jul 2006 20:43 GMT
your welcome...so Don, are you going to use
wal mart for any future auto service?

> >nope, I think that should do the trick...I would hate to think that
> >the thousands of lives lost, during the early years of union
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> before our country did. I never knew that. Thanks for the
> enlightenment.
~^ beancounter ~^ - 28 Jul 2006 20:51 GMT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_union

> your welcome...so Don, are you going to use
> wal mart for any future auto service?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> > before our country did. I never knew that. Thanks for the
> > enlightenment.
Hammo - 29 Jul 2006 13:44 GMT
On 29/7/06 1:32 AM, in article ctakc21rilp16trmdhpffce1hc12nmiau9@4ax.com,

>> if you study the history of unions in america, you will see it is the
>> only reason most employees have medical, vacation, and limited
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> government employees and way down the list are employees of unionized
> companies. This is in terms of over all numbers.

Oh dear.  

Who do you think or how do you think these conditions came about?

It wasn't by the love of the worker.......

Hammo
S70
Robert - 31 Jul 2006 02:01 GMT
Well, it seems like everyone else is commenting on this, so I guess I
will put in my two cents also.

While unions did raise awareness for workers' needs many many years
ago, now it seems that they are just an easy way for greedy factory
workers to avoid hard work. In most companies, you can achieve higher
pay and better benefits through a corporate miracle referred to as a
"promotion." If these workers were a little more competitive and simply
worked harder to be given one of these promotions, the costs of those
products would remain affordable while their quality increased.

Secondly, unions do harm a company's wellbeing. It seems as if some
people believe that all of the white-collar higher-ups of America are
simply greedy, no-good people looking to rip off the blue-collars. That
is simply not the case, I believe. They just want adequate compensation
for their work. Consequently, the bosses will pay the blue-collars as
much as the company can afford to. Therefore, when a union comes along
and demands and forces a company to pay more, pay more, pay more, to
the blue-collars, the company is paying them with money that it simply
doesn't have. This causes the company to go down the tubes as the
workers rely on the union and quality of work lags. This is exactly why
GM is in the mess they are in now. They paid the blue-collars
adequately for the work they did and the education they possessed...but
that wasn't good enough. So they complained to the unions, which got
them higher pay, so they realized they didn't have to work as
hard...they could still get raises and benefit hikes without results.
This is what brought down the American automotive industry. This is
what is bringing down the American manufacturing industry. And, as we
are still largely an industrial society, this is what has caused the
current national depression, or plateau, at the least.

At least that's my opinion.
~^ beancounter ~^ - 31 Jul 2006 14:43 GMT
That's true (your snipped comment), in some cases. The unions of
today have a had a huge impact on some industries...such as auto,
mfg, and...say air traffic controllers...etc...teachers...Not just the
factory workers...as a lot of those jobs are not even done here anymore

(moved off-shore).. Unions today are much different that those of
100 years ago...but they are a "brothers & sisters"...w/the common
goal of banding togather for a stronger voice, tham that of one or two
alone...

But, I still stand by my assertion that busines generally does not give
any benefits out of the "goodness and compassion" of ther heart..
only by compettittiveness and negotiation do they reluctantally hand
out benefits...Unless it is Enron or something, then $ flow freeley
"at the top" of the organization....I doubt the folks "at the bottom"
got any enhansed benefits...imho, of course...

> While unions did raise awareness for workers' needs many many years
> ago, now it seems that they are just an easy way for greedy factory
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> worked harder to be given one of these promotions, the costs of those
> products would remain affordable while their quality increased.
Johan Plane - 28 Jul 2006 16:50 GMT
> GM has been raped and pillaged by the unions and I agree that
> management is worthless also. GM never offered anything in terms of
> benefits. Unions either got what they wanted or shut GM down. This is
> still going on.  Legalized extortion. Unions are the number one reason
> the entire airline industry is in the situation it finds itself.

Any company, whatever their business iss, will eventually go down provided they
don't give a sh-t about their employees wellbeing. The company's attutude will
hit their customers one way or another and has nothing to do with Unions.
Regarding the airline industry: I thought it was because people doesn't want to
fly...
~^ beancounter ~^ - 26 Jul 2006 17:15 GMT
cost is only one of many components to customer
satasification...all components must be satasified
to have a excellent "expierence"....my volvo mechanic
does my s80t6 oil change for $40, while i wait, in
aprox 15 min....

> > Sorry but this one got me laughing. We're talking about an oil change not
> > a new turbo charger. I never take these cars to dealers for oil changes.
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> Sound System?  Eh.... not to mention all of the exploits that have been
> released into the wild for MS Office this month.
traderfjp@yahoo.com - 26 Jul 2006 20:02 GMT
It's very hard to break a dip stick.  I'm wondering how this could have
happened.  Also, you're right about how well Walmart is handeling your
problem.  Using the dealer is a hassle and constly.  Try Firestone or
another reputable company and submit the bill to Walmart.  I doubt they
will deny you.  Good luck
> cost is only one of many components to customer
> satasification...all components must be satasified
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> > Sound System?  Eh.... not to mention all of the exploits that have been
> > released into the wild for MS Office this month.
Roger Hunt - 26 Jul 2006 20:14 GMT
>cost is only one of many components to customer
>satasification...all components must be satasified
>to have a excellent "expierence"....my volvo mechanic
>does my s80t6 oil change for $40, while i wait, in
>aprox 15 min....

I'm lucky enough to have found an ex-Volvo-gone-solo mechanic whose
rates are equally as reasonable, by the sound of it.
(Thank goodness)
Signature

Roger Hunt

Steve - 26 Jul 2006 20:24 GMT
> cost is only one of many components to customer
> satasification...all components must be satasified
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> And I bet they spot things and tell you about them, either catching issues
early or getting you ready for expenses you will soon face.

Guess what?  Mechanics hate oil changes.  They are hot, dirty, and they do
not pay well.

When I use a place I do not know well for an oil change I watch them
closely.  I have caught a few minor errors, I suggest that any owner watch
the oil changers if they are not 100% comfortable.
John Horner - 27 Jul 2006 16:09 GMT
> Sorry but this one got me laughing. We're talking about an oil change
> not a new turbo charger. I never take these cars to dealers for oil
> changes. Mercedes wants almost $200 for an oil change. Volvo is
> totally incompetent of providing decent service and Saab service has
> also plummeted since GM took over.

I find it hard to believe that you do not have access to a single
competent independent who specializes in European cars.  Perhaps my view
is colored by the places I have lived (New Jersey, upstate New York,
Texas and No. California).  Everywhere I have ever lived there have been
several well regarded competent European import specialist independent
repair shops.  Even the small town of 25,000 people I live in now has a
shop which all of the Euro car owners know to be competent.

Your money.  Your time. Your choices.  I think you will do better having
someone who knows what they are doing work on your vehicle, even with
something "simple" like an oil change.

John
~^ beancounter ~^ - 27 Jul 2006 16:59 GMT
there are many great ind volvo shops along the
colorado front range...they would love your
business...pick up a copy of rolling mag or come by
and have a beer w/the local volvo club meeting to
see what shop is closest and best...word get around
w/volvo owners.....good luck !!....

> > Sorry but this one got me laughing. We're talking about an oil change
> > not a new turbo charger. I never take these cars to dealers for oil
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> John
Jamie - 25 Jul 2006 20:01 GMT
One the other hand, going to Wal-Mart and saving money is what creates
enough wealth to buy a Mercedes, SAAB and a Volvo.

.02 cents.

> > They asked me what other cars I own and I said a Mercedes 500SL and a
> > Saab. He assured me I can bring those cars in. I guess stupid really
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> John
~^ beancounter ~^ - 25 Jul 2006 23:47 GMT
"One the other hand, going to Wal-Mart and saving
money is what creates enough wealth to buy a
Mercedes, SAAB and a Volvo."

yea, you might be right...i would say making a lot
of disposable $$ will put one into a nice volvo...i
would never take my volvo to a jiffy lube or wal mart...
i only want folks that know volvos working on my volvos..
and, i know i will pay a bit for it.....same with my plane...
"qualified mechanics only", please....i don't want some
person that was flipping burgers and checking to see if
the customer wants a girl or boy toy next working on
my "stuff"...........

> One the other hand, going to Wal-Mart and saving money is what creates
> enough wealth to buy a Mercedes, SAAB and a Volvo.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> >
> > John
zencraps@comcast.net - 26 Jul 2006 00:27 GMT
~.i
> would never take my volvo to a jiffy lube or wal mart...
> i only want folks that know volvos working on my volvos..
> and, i know i will pay a bit for it.....

Excuse me, but getting an oil and filter change is not rocket science,
any moron can do it, and do it right.

Were I not a shade tree mechanic, I would seek out the cheapest price
for that service.
Michael Pardee - 26 Jul 2006 00:42 GMT
> ~.i
>> would never take my volvo to a jiffy lube or wal mart...
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Were I not a shade tree mechanic, I would seek out the cheapest price
> for that service.

You are right that any moron could do it, but the morons regularly screw it
up in expensive ways. Cross-threaded drain plugs, improper fluids,
underfilling or overfilling, broken dipsticks and dipstick tubes and similar
fubars are legion. I've seen complaints about oil being drained and left
out, several about ATF instead of oil, but at least I haven't seen any tales
of coolant instead of oil in the crankcase. I must not get around much. I
have personally seen gear lube in a crankcase after a Jiffy Lube got ahold
of it.

For non-DIYers I recommend taking it to your regular mechanic. The patronage
of an honest mechanic will repay itself many times over in goodwill
writeoffs and catching problems early. If you don't have a good mechanic,
find a good one.

Mike
~^ beancounter ~^ - 26 Jul 2006 03:58 GMT
you get what you pay for @ wal mart or
juffy lube....

> ~.i
> > would never take my volvo to a jiffy lube or wal mart...
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Were I not a shade tree mechanic, I would seek out the cheapest price
> for that service.
John Horner - 27 Jul 2006 20:51 GMT
> you get what you pay for @ wal mart or
> juffy lube....

Actually you get less than you pay for in many instances!

John
John Horner - 27 Jul 2006 20:50 GMT
> ~.i
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Excuse me, but getting an oil and filter change is not rocket science,
> any moron can do it, and do it right.

What you say should be true, but in practice is not.  Stripped oil drain
plug bolts, improperly seated oil filter and incorrectly refilled
engines are but a few of the things I have seen done by the morons you
are so fond of.

John
zencraps@comcast.net - 28 Jul 2006 06:22 GMT
> > ~.i
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> engines are but a few of the things I have seen done by the morons you
> are so fond of.

LOL

And which "morons," exactly, do you claim I am fond of?

Fact is, I have nothing but contempt for anyone too lame, ill equipped
or unskilled to change their own oil.

What, you think you need to be certified to do this task?

Christ on a cross, a ten year old on Ritalin could do it.

Just change your own oil, problem solved.
Tim McNamara - 25 Jul 2006 23:50 GMT
> One the other hand, going to Wal-Mart and saving money is what
> creates enough wealth to buy a Mercedes, SAAB and a Volvo.
>
> .02 cents.

You don't appear to understand the concept of "wealth creation."
Jamie - 26 Jul 2006 02:50 GMT
Thanks Tim,
I guess I was leaning more towards being frugal - a penny saved is a
penny earned. Of course there is also - you get what you pay for.

;-)

> > One the other hand, going to Wal-Mart and saving money is what
> > creates enough wealth to buy a Mercedes, SAAB and a Volvo.
> >
> > .02 cents.
>
> You don't appear to understand the concept of "wealth creation."
Steve - 26 Jul 2006 20:22 GMT
> > One the other hand, going to Wal-Mart and saving money is what
> > creates enough wealth to buy a Mercedes, SAAB and a Volvo.
> >
> > .02 cents.
>
> You don't appear to understand the concept of "wealth creation."

LMAO!!!
My dear boy, it's clear that the issue is a question of macro V. micro!

Explaining how having a middle class with money to spend on more then food
and housing with medical coverage is what makes the economy grow is not what
they hear on talk radio.  You must be an evil liberal!  If not for the evil
liberal media I bet we woulda been done in Iraq already!

OTOH saving a few bucks is never a bad idea as long as one is not penny wise
and pound foolish.
When I first graduated from college I had an interview to manage a Jiffy
Lube.

They have impressive quality control systems and severe repercussions for
failures leading to engine loss.

Quite frankly the Volvo is an unusual car, but the second time Wal Mart,
Jiffy Lube or where ever will do it right, will be 200% careful and will be
sure it does not happen again.  Would I bring the car to such a place for an
oil change?  Perhaps.  Wal Mart if it was on my way.  I am sure Jiffy Lube
has tech info out so the problems that happened at Wal Mart will not happen
there.

I tend to think the dip stick was either an accident that could happen
anywhere or a defect.

I will not pay the 40 bucks the dealer wants for an oil change, but I will,
and do pay 25 for my garage to do the oil change, rather then 15 at the
chain stores.
Don - 26 Jul 2006 21:17 GMT
>LMAO!!!
>My dear boy, it's clear that the issue is a question of macro V. micro!
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>and do pay 25 for my garage to do the oil change, rather then 15 at the
>chain stores.

Here's Jiffy Lube at its best. Quality control isn't their issue.
Fraud is their issue. And they do that quite well.
http://www.nbc4.tv/video/9152183/detail.html
~^ beancounter ~^ - 26 Jul 2006 21:59 GMT
i would never take a volvo to a jiffy lube...
for fear of gettin' "lubed" myself....

> >LMAO!!!
> >My dear boy, it's clear that the issue is a question of macro V. micro!
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> Fraud is their issue. And they do that quite well.
> http://www.nbc4.tv/video/9152183/detail.html
Alex Zepeda - 28 Jul 2006 05:13 GMT
> They have impressive quality control systems and severe repercussions for
> failures leading to engine loss.

No, they really don't.  A friend of mine worked at JL for a while.
Really, their attention to detail is quite lacking.

> Quite frankly the Volvo is an unusual car

As far as performing oil changes is concerned, no.

Signature

alex

John Horner - 27 Jul 2006 16:04 GMT
> One the other hand, going to Wal-Mart and saving money is what creates
> enough wealth to buy a Mercedes, SAAB and a Volvo.
>
> .02 cents.

Hardly.  Wealth creation is rarely a function of penny pinching
behavior.  Penny pinching generally ends up being counter productive and
pulls a person's wealth down over time, not up.

John
~^ beancounter ~^ - 27 Jul 2006 16:57 GMT
the term for that is "tight wad" or miser......

imho....

> > One the other hand, going to Wal-Mart and saving money is what creates
> > enough wealth to buy a Mercedes, SAAB and a Volvo.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> John
zencraps@comcast.net - 27 Jul 2006 17:14 GMT
Many people who are wealthy are frugal.

Sam Walton was known to drive an older pickup as his daily driver, when
he was a billionaire.

Sure, if something is important to them they spend the money, but many
are thrifty, industrious and basically not at all extravagant by
nature.

To the truly successful, all money is good for is a means of keeping
score.

Nothing wrong with that.
~^ beancounter ~^ - 27 Jul 2006 18:23 GMT
"To the truly successful, all money
is good for is a means of keeping
score."....

well stated....

> Many people who are wealthy are frugal.
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Nothing wrong with that.
~^ beancounter ~^ - 27 Jul 2006 18:24 GMT
"Sam Walton was known to drive an older pickup"

and i would bet dollars to doughnuts he had a trusted
mechanic.....

> Many people who are wealthy are frugal.
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Nothing wrong with that.
 
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