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Car Forum / Volvo Cars / September 2006Longevity Guesses? -1989 240- rear main seal leaking
Hi all I have a 1898 Volvo 240 wagon with 183,000 miles. It developed an oil leak that has now clocked in at one quart per thousand miles. My mechanic says it's the rear main. Can anybody with experience in these things guess at what will happen if I just let it be instead of fixing it. The car has quite a few little problems that make me think it's time to run it till it dies. I'm just trying to get some clue as to how fast these things progress. Would it be silly to think I could get another 50,000 miles out of it? Thanks > Hi all > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks Anything is possible, but it isn't likely. Have you serviced the flame trap? Have you tried owning a car built after 1900? ;-) > I'm just trying to get some clue as to how fast these things progress. When a main engine seal finally goes, it's usually sudden. This isn't particular to Volvos. > Would it be silly to think I could get another 50,000 miles out of it? The question you really should be asking, is whether there is too much pressure for some reason... rear seal being just a symptom, not strictly "the" problem... What reasons might there be causing excess pressure? Flame trap and what else? Danny > > I'm just trying to get some clue as to how fast these things progress. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > pressure for some reason... rear seal being just a symptom, not strictly > "the" problem... > What reasons might there be causing excess pressure? Flame trap and > what else? All the various causes of blow-by. Is it leaking oil anywhere else? Do a leakdown test. > Hi all > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks It's not environmentally responsible to be driving around losing that much oil, you may as well just start pouring quarts of oil in the street. Check the flame trap first, if that's clean then have the rear main seal replaced. The car could easily run another 200,000 miles like that until it "dies", old Volvos rarely die, they just get ratty and ugly when neglected. I'll check the flame trap first thing in the morning but I will not be spending $1000 to have the seal replaced. We all 'pour oil' in the street every time we turn on our ignition. Since you like telling people what to do why don't you walk to work? Danny > It's not environmentally responsible to be driving around losing that > much oil, you may as well just start pouring quarts of oil in the street. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > it "dies", old Volvos rarely die, they just get ratty and ugly when > neglected. > I'll check the flame trap first thing in the morning but I will not be > spending $1000 to have the seal replaced. We all 'pour oil' in the > street every time we turn on our ignition. Since you like telling > people what to do why don't you walk to work? > > Danny A rear seal replacement should cost less than half what you quote. James and I don't always seem eye to eye, but he's dead tight on this, and your response is just defensive nonsense. Get the seal fixed. If you don't want to spend more than $10, try a can of stop-leak, and actually follow the directions on the can. >>It's not environmentally responsible to be driving around losing that >>much oil, you may as well just start pouring quarts of oil in the street. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>it "dies", old Volvos rarely die, they just get ratty and ugly when >>neglected. > I'll check the flame trap first thing in the morning but I will not be > spending $1000 to have the seal replaced. We all 'pour oil' in the > street every time we turn on our ignition. Since you like telling > people what to do why don't you walk to work? Look if you're gonna be a jerk about helpful advice people give then don't come here looking for free help. And I do ride my bicycle 15 miles to work on a fairly regular basis, is that good enough? I also put new seals in both my cars so they don't leak. I really have to wonder why people without mechanical ability come here and ask for repair pointers. Good grief, if you can't turn a wrench well enough to replace a rear main seal, what are you doing here? Do the work yourself, it ain't hard. Seriously. > Do the work yourself, it ain't hard. Rear seal means it's a tranny-out job. That's hard by anyone's standards! > > Do the work yourself, it ain't hard. > > Rear seal means it's a tranny-out job. That's hard by anyone's standards! No, it is not really "hard," just time consuming. As with all automotive repair endeavors, all it takes is tools, a place to work, time, and a bit of knowledge. I've done many transmission R & R's in my garage at my home, and I am a self-taught, shade tree mechanic. Frankly, doing jobs like that is a character builder. Beyond checking your flame trap, you might also want to check your breather box. The breather box is usually connected to the flame trap by a tube. Inside the tube their is a flame trap, unless you have a turbo. The flame trap is a plastic disk. The holes in the disk can get clogged up. In addition, their is a smaller tube that runs to a brass nipple to the underside of your intake manifold. You might want to just replace this small hose. In addition, remove the brass nipple and clear it out. It has also a small hole and it can get clogged very easy. I don't know where your flame trap is located. Mine is located under the intake manifold. As a result, it can be a PITA to get too. And replacing the breather box can be difficult, if you guys don't think so, try to replace one on a 740 - 16 valve some time. You could also try and use some thicker oil to try and slow the leak. If I were you, I would not try and switch your type of oil this stage in the game. If you use dino or syn, stick with it. Changing types can cause oil leaks also. I would fix the seal. Although, as the people here already stated, the leak could be a result of something else. You would not want to replace it just to have it blown out again. I might be an idiot, but $500 is not that much money. It cost me that much just to have my timing belt done. You already know your car and have probably treated it well. Buying another used volvo is a gamble, if you don't know what to look for. Your car only has 190 xxx it will last alot longer. I mean 300+. If the repairs to your car cost more then it would be to get another, then buy another car. Although with all of the money you have saved in car payments, 500-1000 should not be too bad. It leaks 1q every thousand miles. I might be an enviornmental killer, but I once had a car that would burn that much oil leaving the driveway. If I were you, I would go to the store and get a quart of oil and put it in your trunk. Then, I would put $50 dollars a paycheck in the get a new seal fund. P.S. Make sure that you have a volvo oil filter. It has a check valve in it that keeps your oil pressure up. This is a good thing to have expecially if you got an oil leak. > > > Do the work yourself, it ain't hard. > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Frankly, doing jobs like that is a character builder. Thank you so much for a really comprehensive response. Here is the status: My flame trap was partially clogged and I have cleaned it. There seems to be HUGE pressure in the crankcase. At idle, when I dislodge the oil filler cap, it jiggles wildly. When I rremove it I can feel a strong breeze coming up from it along with oil spittle. Thank you for recognizing that money is an issue here for me, if it wasn't I'd just buy a nice new volvo and never bother with shade tree wrench turning. I made an appointment with my volvo dealer for this coming monday so if I have no luck myself this weekend hopefully at least they can rersolve it. Thanks again and I offer my apologies for my previous nasty attitude answer. I am under some life pressure lately and I snap way too easily. Peace and appreciation to all. Danny > Beyond checking your flame trap, you might also want to check your > breather box. The breather box is usually connected to the flame trap [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > > > Frankly, doing jobs like that is a character builder. > Thank you so much for a really comprehensive response. > [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > > > > > Frankly, doing jobs like that is a character builder. I er don't know the kind way to tell you this... I've had exactly the same problems, 'cept mine was a front seal. As I was working away from home it was a garage/creditcard job. However, once the flame trap filled up with oil again, the problems restarted. I suggest you wash out the flame trap every week with parafin until such time as funds allow you to dismantle engine. I got a second opinion from Practical Classic magazine (NO, I'm not connected with it and am not advertising it). There is absolutely no point in removing the gearbox for a mere temporary repair of exchanging the oilseal. The simple fact is that combustion gas is entering the oil paths, possibly a valve letting oil by, but more likely piston/cylinder wear. (if you can run for a week without the oil cap it could hint as to valve exhaust 'let by' versus piston 'let by' theories, but dont forget some sort of porous (cloth) plug in oilfiller plug). I'm afraid I can't relate yankee costs to UK ones, but once you are reluctantly convinced its the piston/cyl problem, we can get 'short' engines relatively cheeply. i.e., assembled recond engine block, pistons, crank. This is so amazing to find such a topic when I spent time today extracting an engine AND transmission from an old 82 model . Fortunately not to hard a job especially for an ex mechanic 15 years after downing spanners for a less energetic career in retail. The reason is exactly as described here...leaky rear seal in my beloved 83 240 wagon at 320,000k`s I managed to find a gem of a 244 that appears to have only travelled 126,000k`s. It`s definitely easier to take the transmission together with the motor as the bell housing bolts may be a real hassle otherwise? My only disappointment was to find the auto trans doesn`t have O/Drive, so mine will stay. I will exchange motors shortly, (the old girl still runs fine but must be getting tired?) after I`ve replaced the rear main seal on the newer engine before fitting. Removal of the whole unit only took 2-3 hours taking it really steady (old boys speed) Guess I`ll check the 'flame trap' before getting into things more urgently...... Still can`t believe the coincidence in finding this post..... the 240`s are such a joy to work on, forget the rest! Cheers, Dean. > > Thank you so much for a really comprehensive response. > > [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > get 'short' engines relatively cheeply. i.e., assembled recond engine block, > pistons, crank. >>>Do the work yourself, it ain't hard. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Frankly, doing jobs like that is a character builder. It's not so much hard, but I would agree that it's a pain in the a.s, last year I helped a friend replace a clutch in the parking lot of his office building which really worked out to me doing the work and him passing me tools. If it's an automatic it's even tougher, those things are heavy enough that I can't lift one back into the car without help. In a nutshell, I can certainly see why a person who may be fine replacing a water pump or alternator would not want to try something as major as a transmission or rear main. It's not impossible but it is about as "hard" as any mechanical work you can do on a 240 which really is a joy to work on overall. It's not impossible but it is > about as "hard" as any mechanical work you can do on a 240 which really > is a joy to work on overall. Yes, it is physically demanding, and without a good tranny jack requires a helper or tw to remove and reinstallthe tranny. Messy, time consuming labor. Not pleasant work, but good lord, you can save a wheelbarrow full of money by DIY. > Not pleasant work, but good lord, you can save a wheelbarrow full of > money by DIY. Until my billable time reached $200/hour I could agree with that idea. It's actually fairly disappointing. > Until my billable time reached $200/hour I could agree with that idea. > It's actually fairly disappointing. My friends say I should increase my hourly up to $175 or even $200, but I keep it at "only" $150. So for me, every dime counts. roll dem bones |
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