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Car Forum / Volvo Cars / December 2006Re: 244 Diesel brake bleeding
Thanks for your responses. It appears that the deletion took place on my server. I've been pressure bleeding on other cars a Mercedes and an older VW transporter. I never had this problem. Near the rear axel there are are two small cylinders - they may be check valves- brake fluid enters at one point and exits perhaps 50mm away. Does this have to be purged? Constantine > Thanks for your responses. It appears that the deletion took place on > my server. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Constantine Those are the proportioning valves, you don't have to do anything special with them. You do need to bleed the calipers in the correct order or air will remain. >> Thanks for your responses. It appears that the deletion took place on >> my server. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >special with them. You do need to bleed the calipers in the correct >order or air will remain. I start with the rear passanger side ( LR) then the rear driver's side(RR) and the to the front passanger side (LF) and finally to the front driver's side (R F). I am really at loss with this relatively simple procedure. Is there any problem with pressure bleeding on the Volvo in general or the 244 specifically? Constantine > I start with the rear passanger side ( LR) then the rear driver's > side(RR) and the to the front passanger side (LF) and finally to the > front driver's side (R F). I am really at loss with this relatively > simple procedure. Is there any problem with pressure bleeding on > the Volvo in general or the 244 specifically? > Constantine I use a pressure bleeder, here's the proceedure: 8 bleeders (3 on each front, 1 on each rear caliper). Bleed them in this order: Left rear Left front (top) Right front (top) Right rear Right front (both lower) Left front (both lower) If you had a newer 240 with ABS you'd follow this order: Left rear Right rear Left front Right front I really appreciate the information. I've been using the method for newer cars. Incidentally, my pressure bleeder is home made and consist of brass fittings, a check valve, two ball valves and a pressure gauge. The adapter to the reservoir was purchased seperately. I pump air directly into the reservoir at 15psi. >> I start with the rear passanger side ( LR) then the rear driver's >> side(RR) and the to the front passanger side (LF) and finally to the [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Left front >Right front Just an added comment. My front callipers have two bleeding valves on top and one on the bottom. I assume that both top valves should be bled at the same time per your schedule. >> I start with the rear passanger side ( LR) then the rear driver's >> side(RR) and the to the front passanger side (LF) and finally to the [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Left front >Right front > Just an added comment. My front callipers have two bleeding valves on > top and one on the bottom. I assume that both top valves should be > bled at the same time per your schedule. If there are two hoses entering the caliper, the top hose connects to a channel connecting the two top pisrons. The lower hose connects the two bottom pistons, i.e. there are two separate hydraulic circuits in each front caliper. The bleed screws for the bottom circuit are the inner and outer screws located in the middle of the caliper, the upper circuit has one screw at the top of the caliper. If your calipers have a bleed screw on the bottomthen they are reversed side to side. The most effective bleed sequence for a single front caliper is to bleed the outer screw, then the lower inner. Then the upper. The system is plumbed so that a single hose failure will leave an upper circuit on one front caliper, a lower circuit on the other caliper and one rear caliper intact. In such a failure you have roughly one third the normal braking effort but not a total loss. Bob  SignatureThe goal when driving is to miss the maximum number of objects. Bob: Thanks for the explanation. Constantine >> Just an added comment. My front callipers have two bleeding valves on >> top and one on the bottom. I assume that both top valves should be [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Bob > Bob: > Thanks for the explanation. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > > >Bob Since you like to make tools... Screw a couple lengths of old brake tube into a master cylinder. Then bend each to empty into the resevoir (sort of a g shape. Fit them, then anchor the mc in a vise, fill the reservoir with fresh fluid and pump to your heart's content to completely bench bleed a new cylinder. Bob SignatureThe goal when driving is to miss the maximum number of objects. >> Bob: >> Thanks for the explanation. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >Bob I use two plastic fittings and some clear tubing. When the air bubbles are gone I assume it's ok. I have still not solved the bottoming out of the brake. To date I have installed a new m.c. , four rebuilt callipers and six supply hoses. I believe I have air trapped somewhere. My next attempt will be to raise the back on stands and try power bleeding that way. Up to now I have been raising the car - I use a large forklift- and have checked all the lines and connection. All were dry. Any comments? Constantine f Constantine skrev: > >> [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > Constantine f > It couldn't be the brakepedal connection to the brakeservo? Or perhaps the servo itself? Just a wild thought that entered my echochamber. Also, you're not bleeding with engine running I hope. Forgive me for asking such a basic silly question. / Johan >Constantine skrev: >> [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > >/ Johan After bench bleeding the m.c., I mounted it and then blocked the ports to test it for pressure. It held. I therefore assumed that all was well up to the ports, incuding the linkage and the servo. No, I did not bleed the system with the engine running. Thanks for your suggestions. Constantine The most arcane thing thing that I can think of that would allow the system to not contain pressure is a brake hose or twop that are expanding when you push on the pedal. Have an assistant hold each of the hoses in turn as you pressurize the system and see if one or more expand when you push the pedal. I've seen hoses that blow up like a balloon when pressurized but instantly shrink back to normal size when the pressure is released. Bob SignatureThe goal when driving is to miss the maximum number of objects. >The most arcane thing thing that I can think of that would allow the >system to not contain pressure is a brake hose or twop that are [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Bob Thanks for tip. Constantine >>The most arcane thing thing that I can think of that would allow the >>system to not contain pressure is a brake hose or twop that are [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Thanks for tip. >Constantine Here is a follow up. When installing rebuilt callipers, examine closely the bleeder valve. Make sure that the threading is snug othewise you may not be able to bleed the system. That appears to be my final problem. The callipers were ATE rebuilds, one was perfect the other had a lot of play in the bleeder valve. Constantine > Thanks for your responses. It appears that the deletion took place on > my server. > > I've been pressure bleeding on other cars a Mercedes and an older VW > transporter. I never had this problem. Hate to say this, but you know you bleed each side of the front caliper separately? Signature--- Marten Thanks Marten. Yes, I do but unfortunately I did not use the method which James (see previous entry) suggested. I used the method for the newer 240 with the ABS. As an added note to all, the car was not level. It will when I bleed it again tomorrow. Thanks for your thoughts. Constantine >> Thanks for your responses. It appears that the deletion took place on >> my server. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Hate to say this, but you know you bleed each side of the front caliper >separately? > As an added note to all, the car was not level. It will when I bleed > it again tomorrow. _____ A slight slope is not that significant. > Bleed them in this order: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Right front (both lower) > Left front (both lower) _____ James Sweet's procedure is technically correct. I have, however, had perfectly fine results bleeding brakes on my 240 cars starting at the brake with the longest lines away from the Master Brake Cylinder; R Rear, L Rear, R Front (both sides), L Front (both sides). I use a narrow ID size tygon (PVC) plastic hose with a non-return ball check valve. I connect the hose with a tight fitting rubber sleeve on a bleed nipple and open it 1/8 to 1/4 turn with a 8mm box end wrench. Then i put the end of the hose in a glass jar. I then pump the brake pedal five times, and make sure that i do not exceed about 60% to 70% of full stroke. If i don't see air bubble in the tygon (PVC) hose, then that particular brake cylinder is done. If i see air bubbles, i pump five more times. This has always worked for me. The reason the car is never level is because one side or the other is raised by the jack to take the wheel off. SignatureRegards / JCH > _____ > James Sweet's procedure is technically correct. I have, however, had [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > level is because one side or the other is raised by the jack to take the > wheel off. Yikes, get a set of jack stands and support the whole car, it's much safer as well as you can have all the wheels off at once in case you need to go back over one. After bench bleeding the new (ATE) master cylinder and following James' suggestions the pedal was still bottoming out. There were no air bubbles in any of the lines. I used 3 liters of fluid in all just to make sure I had cleaned out everything. I concluded that there was a very good chance of a defective new master cylinder, the replacement is on the way. Afterwards, I came up with an idea which might be of value to all. After you bench bleed the the master cylinder, mount it on the car but do not hook up the hydraulic tubes. Instead use either blanking screws made by Parker Hannifin, or make your own by using an old brake tube which has two male fitting on it. Cut the tube about 6 inches/150mm from the end and then fold the ends and solder them . When installed you can make your own pressure test of the master cylinder. If the pedal does not move down under your foot pressure, it is ok. Look for problems elsewhere. Constantine >> _____ >> James Sweet's procedure is technically correct. I have, however, had [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >safer as well as you can have all the wheels off at once in case you >need to go back over one. |
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