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Car Forum / Volkswagen / Air Cooled Volkswagen Cars / May 2009

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Oil Pump spec's

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Mel P. - 24 May 2009 16:42 GMT
Is there some type of relationship between the RPM, PRESSURE & OIL VISCOSITY
for a VW AC engine's oil pump?

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Mel P.

Veeduber - 24 May 2009 17:25 GMT
> Is there some type of relationship between the RPM, PRESSURE & OIL VISCOSITY
> for a VW AC engine's oil pump?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mel,

On a cold morning ( in southern California... probably 40F to 50F )
the STOCK pump can burst a stock oil filter canister, which is rated
at 200psi.  Running a blueprinted pump, your start-up pressure can
exceed 300 psi.

Which tells you why you need a by-pass valve.  It also gives some
indication of the pressure LOSS in a pump that has not been
blueprinted.

But as for some table showing pressure vs the viscosity of the oil,
I've never seen one.

-Bob Hoover
Ralf Ballis - 24 May 2009 17:58 GMT
>But as for some table showing pressure vs the viscosity of the oil,
>I've never seen one.

This requires a more complex equation.

Regards,

Ralf
P.J.Berg - 25 May 2009 21:23 GMT
>> But as for some table showing pressure vs the viscosity of the oil,
>> I've never seen one.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Ralf

Well, why don't you post the equation instead of merely stating the obvious?

J.

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Ralf Ballis - 25 May 2009 21:50 GMT
> Well, why don't you post the equation instead of merely stating the
> obvious?

Maybe I'm answering only the question about a table that's shows pressure
vs. viscosity.

Regards,

Ralf
Veeduber - 26 May 2009 17:47 GMT
> >> But as for some table showing pressure vs the viscosity of the oil,
> >> I've never seen one.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> --
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client:http://www.opera.com/mail/

Hey, P.J. and Ralf and all you other guys...
Wanna have some fun?  Build yourself a VW Oil Pump Tester.
Seriously.  It's easiest if you've got a lathe & milling machine but
you can make a suitable holder out of WOOD and some Bondo.

The idea is to make a bench-top VW oil pump HOLDER.  You drill the
inlet & outlet holes first... then bolt them together with a bolt
passing through both pieces.  Bolted up like that, use your milling
machine or the lathe to turn the hole to the ddiameter of the pump-
body MINUS about three through.  You will need to rig a slotted
DRIVER.  A piece of 3/4" shafting  will do, turned down to accept 1/2"
drive v-belt pulleys.  Use 3/4" collars.

The handy thing here is that you can make up any kind of pump cover
you want... or you can buy some of that blister-pak'd crap.  Put a
gauge in the circuit and rig an input hose, you can do all manner of
interesting tests.  But you'll need about 2 hp on your input... and a
double-sheave pulley to get enough power to it.

An engine builder who taught me a lot of stuff about racing engines
had a rig similar to the above that he used to test blue-printed
pumps, long-gear pumps and so forth.  The experiments he was working
on at the time of his death had to do with a centrifugal oil filter --
a belt-driven jobbie that ran at 2x crankshaft speed to power the 6"
dia. 'filter plate'.

If you happen to have an aero-space industry handy you can pick-up new-
surplus aluminum billets, tooling plate and so forth at bargain
prices.  Or, you can try making your own castings.

I suppose the point of all this is that when you can't find the data
you need, you can always create a few simple experiments and develop
the data yourself. such as using about one-quart MORE oil than
recommended... and giving the engine a chance to fill all your lube-
oil devices & plumbing before you put the hammer down.  By that time
the extra quart will have vanished, taken up by the hosing & pipes
supplying your cooler, pre-luber, filter and so forth.  With AIRPLANES
you need to establish the sump's capacity with the engine at various
ANGLES.  Overlook that particular data and you can eat an engine
because the angle sez you've got too much oil in the sump when in fact
you may not have enough.

All of this is just common-sense stuff; the sort of thing everyone
eventually figures out... after losing an engine or two.

-Bob Hoover
Joey Tribiani - 26 May 2009 18:43 GMT
> .  It's easiest if you've got a lathe & milling machine but
>you can make a suitable holder out of WOOD and some Bondo.

cool, we could hire Mario to make it... probably wouldn't cost more than
10-15 thousand...
Veeduber - 27 May 2009 02:01 GMT
> cool, we could hire Mario to make it... probably wouldn't cost more than
> 10-15 thousand...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Joey,

If you've got a seriously blown engine around the place, something
that poked a hole in the case down around the #3 cylinder, you can use
that case as your pump-holder.  Just saw it off just aft of the middle
bearing web. You can pull the oil pick-up tube and install something
more suitable.  Or you can leave the tube in place but add a length
of  hydraulic hose.

When blueprinting a pump what you're looking for is a set of gears
that are .001 OR LESS in radial clearance in a pump body that is NOT
scored on the bottom.  Then you use a surface grinder to bring the
pump body AND the cover-plate to a ..001 COMBINED clearance.  These
are a steel-to-steel interface but the aluminum pump body will take
care of that, expanding  enough to give the gears sufficient clearance
so as not to score the cover plate.

When making a test stand keep the pump's rotation in mind.  I know it
sounds like one of those trik questions but it's not.   In fact, I
know a guy named Bob who got everything all set to drive a pump
directly with a 1hp electric motor... except he forgot the pump is
driven ANTI-clockwise... and the motor spins the other way.

-Bob
Joey Tribiani - 27 May 2009 03:16 GMT
>> cool, we could hire Mario to make it... probably wouldn't cost more than
>> 10-15 thousand...
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> more suitable.  Or you can leave the tube in place but add a length
> of  hydraulic hose.

Hahah... was just a joke since it involved bondo, Mario would be the man for
the job!... anywho, if anyone was serious about making a setup like this, I
do, in fact, have a blown engine.... I could donate a 1971 AE case that has
a cracked main bearing saddle...
 
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