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Car Forum / Volkswagen / Water Cooled Volkswagen Cars / November 2006Rear fog lights in VWs?
Some European imports are set up for rear fogs, with everything except a lightbulb in the socket and a switch on the dash. My old US-model '94 Saab actually had a working rear fog light. I'm told that some current Audis have working rear fogs. How are current US model VWs set up? Did older models have the wiring and lamp sockets?  SignatureBert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com American cars don,t have rear fog lights. As drivers here are to lazy and to actually drive. Or worry about what's behind them. > Some European imports are set up for rear fogs, with everything > except a lightbulb in the socket and a switch on the dash. My old [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > How are current US model VWs set up? Did older models have the wiring > and lamp sockets? In news:w_GdnT_cNMSKqqDYnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@centurytel.net "none2u" <none2u@notrealatall.bye> wrote: > American cars don,t have rear fog lights Last time I looked, VWs weren't "American cars". SignatureBert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com > American cars don,t have rear fog lights. some do...they are permitted (just not required). the 2nd generation oldsmobile aurora (not even sure that was exported to europe) had them standard even on domestic market models. >As drivers here are to lazy and to actually drive. Or worry about what's >behind them. that part is very true. and they wouldn't even know what a rear fog is or when to use/not use one. > American cars don,t have rear fog lights. As drivers here are to lazy and to > actually drive. Or worry about what's behind them. So, "to actually drive," you must have rear fog lights. And drivers in the US are too lazy to drive. Well, you convinced me! No. To actually drive means to look behind you as much as you do forward. So if anyone comes up behind you . You can move over out of the fast lane. . Or if you're going to stop, you check before stopping in the middle of the road. And causing a crash. In America, if anyone rear ends you, Its their fault. Even if you dead stop in the freeway, to use your cell phone. So no one cares, No one looks behind them. And noone drives..... Just oblivious Americans looking straight ahead,cutting everyone off, saying I don't know what happened. I was driving in the fast lane, ,very slow, using my cell phone. I got rear ended. Its their fault.. >> American cars don,t have rear fog lights. As drivers here are to lazy and >> to actually drive. Or worry about what's behind them. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Well, you convinced me! > No. To actually drive means to look behind you as much as you do forward. So > if anyone comes up behind you . You can move over out of the fast lane. Now, wait a second. You mean that rear fog lights are to allow the driver of the car with rear fog lights to be able to see cars approaching from behind? Huh? > In America, if anyone rear ends you, Its their > fault. Even if you dead stop in the freeway, to use your cell phone. No, that's obviously not true. Where do you get this stuff, anyway? > So no > one cares, No one looks behind them. If only they had rear fog lights, they'd all be looking behind them? Huh? > And noone drives..... Just oblivious > Americans looking straight ahead,cutting everyone off, saying I don't know > what happened. I was driving in the fast lane, ,very slow, using my cell > phone. I got rear ended. Its their fault. You don't get out into the real world much, do you? Its absolutely true. If you rear end somebody , you will be cited for failure to maintain a safe distance. It doesn't matter why. Nobody gets cited for getting hit in the rear. Apparently you don't get in the real world much. I,m absolutely in the real world. Try checking out what everybody's doing on the freeway. Instead of driving obliviously ahead. Yesterday morning a woman jumped on the freeway in a Jetta Wagon. , cut over two lanes ,in front of me and slowed down. She didn't merge with traffic, She forced traffic to merge with her. She impeded traffic, which is illegal too. And got pissed because I stayed on her a.s. And refused to move. She slowed down more until I went around her so I could keep up with all other traffic, which she impeded again. which was faster then her. She was doing 50-55. Until I exited, at which time she got back over in the slow lane. She is clearly wrong,but doesn't know the law or care. but decided to impede me for spite. but if I hit her it will be my fault and mine alone. That's the real world. She thinks she's right and breaks the law, I hit her and get cited and will have to pay. Because noone gives a crap about anyone behind them. >> No. To actually drive means to look behind you as much as you do forward. >> So if anyone comes up behind you . You can move over out of the fast [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > You don't get out into the real world much, do you? > Its absolutely true. If you rear end somebody , you will be cited for > failure to maintain a safe distance. It doesn't matter why. This turns out to not be absolutely, always, true. Although it's awfully near to being so. I was there, passenger, with a friend where he rear-ended a car backing up an entrance ramp onto Rte. 128 several years back. I gathered that the other guy had missed the exit ramp, stopped just past the entrance ramp and got the bright idea that, being it was 2:00 in the morning, nobody would ever notice if he backed up the wrong ramp. Why, given those circumstances, he just didn't back down the shoulder and take the exit ramp, I don't know. Anyway, as it happened, a police cruiser was following us down the ramp (he thought we were acting "suspiciously") and the cop saw the whole incident. The other driver got cited, on the spot, for causing the accident. I wasn't standing close enough to hear what he was cited for, but he was. And my friend was not. On the other hand, the cop did point out that it was the first time he'd ever written up, or even heard of someone writing up, the driver of the front vehicle in a rear ending. He never got any points on his license and never paid any surcharges for the accident, so I guess everyone agreed with the cop. - Bill ((..attributions lost..)) > >> In America, if anyone rear ends you, Its their fault. Even if you dead > >> stop in the freeway, to use your cell phone. > > > > No, that's obviously not true. Where do you get this stuff, anyway? Yea, I bet he confessed to driving backwards. And a cop just happened to be there and was forced to cite the driver. Otherwise he would of been Scott free. ,Your buddy would of bought the whole wreck. I have access to the accident reports from an insurance company. Its the same story. I don't know anybody that drives down the road and watches their rearviews as much as their front. Or cares who they cutoff or impeded. The laws aren't enforced, So people drive irresponsibly, because they wont be cited or have to pay. They waste other peoples money, time , patience , gas ,and cause wrecks. Pilots watch a lot because they are taught to scan constantly . Front instruments, mirrors , engine gauges , controls, a whole circuit of visual checks, then start over. . Race car drivers too. They never stop scanning . Its work. I know a guy who was drunk and passed out, and jumped a concrete medium, His car did a 180 . he flew in the back seat. And continued backwards on the wrong side of the road until he crashed into a car . He was going backwards on the wrong side of the road, and the other guy got cited. For failure to maintain a safe distance. It later got straightened out, but almost didn't. and justice was served, however. If you rear end somebody, you're getting cited. Therefore inconsiderate , selfish people take advantage of it and cause wrecks. Or block traffic. >> Its absolutely true. If you rear end somebody , you will be cited for >> failure to maintain a safe distance. It doesn't matter why. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >> > >> > No, that's obviously not true. Where do you get this stuff, anyway? i put a rear-fog light bulb in my driver's side taillight. it was something fun to do one saturday and now when it's dark and raining i just switch it on! > Apparently you don't get in the real > world much. I,m absolutely in the real world. Tell you what, None, I'm an attorney, and I've done a lot of insurance-defense work, a large portion of which arises out of rear-enders. If someone stops abruptly or hits the brakes hard in circumstances in which it's negligent to do so, and it causes a rear-ender accident, the driver of the car that gets hit will be at fault. Hate to burst your bubble, but that's a fact, and I've argued it to juries and gotten verdicts in my favor. Most cops will issue citations to both drivers in that kind of accident, which is a knee-jerk reaction by the cop. That doesn't determine liability or trigger insurance coverage, though. What is almost-unheard-of is for the rear-ending driver to be without fault. There will always be contributory negligence, and the rear driver is virtually always going to bear some of the fault. >What is almost-unheard-of is for the rear-ending driver to be without >fault. There will always be contributory negligence, and the rear >driver is virtually always going to bear some of the fault. What about situations that are obviously insurance scams (e.g. cut close in front of someone, then slam on the brakes before they can back off to a safe following distance)? I wouldn't doubt that most drivers who rear end someone else are at least partially at fault, since most drivers tailgate, don't pay too much attention to driving, and don't adjust speed over hills or around blind curves where there may be stopped traffic jams. But there seems to be plenty of insurance fraud around. Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. > >What is almost-unheard-of is for the rear-ending driver to be without > >fault. There will always be contributory negligence, and the rear [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > in front of someone, then slam on the brakes before they can back off to > a safe following distance)? Proving it is where it's tough. You can say all you like that it was a swoop and squat, but proving it is a he said, she said sort of proposition. E.P. > Proving it is where it's tough. You can say all you like that it was a > swoop and squat, but proving it is a he said, she said sort of > proposition. > > E.P. Well the swoop and squat should be pretty easy to prove. In order to make the swoop and squat worthwhile, it would have to be performed several times a day. Oh, and insurance companies frown on these types of claims if there is no police report. So just ask the police officer who does the report to state how many times (whoever) has been rear-ended in the past few months. You've been hit twice from behind, on average, every day for the past YEAR? sheesh -Dave > > Proving it is where it's tough. You can say all you like that it was a > > swoop and squat, but proving it is a he said, she said sort of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Well the swoop and squat should be pretty easy to prove. So easy that the scam is widespread. Yeah, that makes sense. BTW, to make a living at it, you get someone else to do it for you, for a cut. And the money is made from the phantom injuries. Sheesh, indeed - a little googling tells you exactly how this scam works. E.P. > I wouldn't doubt that most drivers who rear end someone else are at > least partially at fault, since most drivers tailgate, don't pay too > much attention to driving, and don't adjust speed over hills or around > blind curves where there may be stopped traffic jams. I agree. Most drivers these days seem to be either impatient, angry, or just plain stupid (like the ones with cell phones growing out of their ears). My '88 Rabbit Cabriolet Convertible has back-up lights, but no provision for rear fog lights. What purpose could rear fog lights serve? Just wondering. In news:E0b%g.15603$o71.10060@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net "Papa" <bikingis@my.fun> wrote: > What purpose could rear fog lights serve? Just wondering. People coming up behind you in bad weather can see you farther away and avoid running in to you. VWs sold in Europe (and maybe elsewhere) have them; I'm just wondering if the lamp socket and wiring is present in US VWs. Even if it's there, the headlight switch would still have to be replaced to make them work. SignatureBert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com > VWs sold in Europe (and maybe elsewhere) have them; I'm just wondering > if the lamp socket and wiring is present in US VWs. Even if it's there, > the headlight switch would still have to be replaced to make them work. no wiring or socket on the car... need to replace the headlight switch for the euro switch. run a wire from the good terminal of the switch to the coresponding one on the module and from the module to the light (same for front fog but only need a switch with front fog on it(gli gti passat)). For the rear fog you also need a bulb holder and tail light (left) with the fog on it (euro). After that go to dealership and reprogram the car to tell him that he have the rear or front fog on it. Any dealer can do it... Erik oso_techENLEVER@hotmail.com >> VWs sold in Europe (and maybe elsewhere) have them; I'm just >> wondering if the lamp socket and wiring is present in US VWs. Even >> if it's there, the headlight switch would still have to be >> replaced to make them work. > > no wiring or socket on the car... Thanks for the remaining info, but that's ->way to much work for me. SignatureBert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com If you have a VW with backup lights, it would be a simple mod to incorporate a switch and a little wire to achieve the added capability of using those lights also as rear-facing foglights. Except that rear fog lights aren't white. A "rear fog light" is simply a very bright red light that's normally built into the tailight. It simply provides added visibility to the vehicles approaching from the rear in dense fog situations. The light is located on only the driver's side in the US and on both sides in Europe. > If you have a VW with backup lights, it would be a simple mod to > incorporate a switch and a little wire to achieve the added capability of > using those lights also as rear-facing foglights. Hmnnn. Guess I'll have to revise my thinking on the back-up lights. O, well. ;>) >> What purpose could rear fog lights serve? Just wondering. > > People coming up behind you in bad weather can see you farther away and > avoid running in to you. That makes sense, especially on the high speed German autobahn. I've seen some pretty dense fog in the German mountains, as well as in the Smokies and elsewhere in the USA. In those situations the regular tail lights are often barely visible (or not visible at all) until you are almost upon the car in front of you. In news:tYb%g.15610$o71.11512@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net "Papa" <bikingis@my.fun> wrote: >>> What purpose could rear fog lights serve? Just wondering. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > tail lights are often barely visible (or not visible at all) until you > are almost upon the car in front of you. I thought of it as I was driving to Richmond on I-64 two weeks ago through a rather astonishing rain storm. Some American cars have ->really feeble tail lights. SignatureBert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com >My '88 Rabbit Cabriolet Convertible has back-up lights, but no provision for >rear fog lights. What purpose could rear fog lights serve? Just wondering. In heavy fog, it allows a driver behind to see the back of your car more easily. The rear fog lamp is brighter than the normal tail lamp. Usually only one is used on the driver's side, because two would look like brake lamps being used. Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. Just a question since you brought up fog lights. Which way are fog lamps to be pointed? Up, down, straight ahead? Left on left, right on right or vice versa? Am referring to forward pointed fog lamps. Nevermind that rear faced type. Heck. What's the skinny on pointing rear face fog lamps? Make/model/age of vehicle should not matter. SignatureJonny > Some European imports are set up for rear fogs, with everything > except a lightbulb in the socket and a switch on the dash. My old [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > How are current US model VWs set up? Did older models have the wiring > and lamp sockets? > Just a question since you brought up fog lights. > Which way are fog lamps to be pointed? > Up, down, straight ahead? Left on left, right on right or vice versa? > Am referring to forward pointed fog lamps. The beams are usually very wide and very flat/horizontal that left-right aim is of little significance (unless they're horribly off). Up-down is more important. that said they should point straight ahead but slightly downward (kinda like low beam headlamps). never should point higher than the horizon. Go find an empty parking lot with a lot of level ground and a wall. Point car at wall, turn on front fogs. Now back up. As you back up the fog beams should slowly get lower and lower. If they don't (or get higher) you are pointing them level or upwards. That's an easy, although imprecise, way...but it at least tells you if they're pointed too high. Doesn't quite tell you if they're too low. But there are instructions here (bottom of this page): http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/aim/aim.html > Nevermind that rear faced type. Heck. What's the skinny on pointing rear > face fog lamps? Isn't any. Front fogs are for you to see the road (so aim is important) but rear fogs are for others to see you (aim not important (well, for the most part)). >> Just a question since you brought up fog lights. >> Which way are fog lamps to be pointed? [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > but rear fogs are for others to see you (aim not important (well, for the > most part)). My Fox doesn't have fog lamps. But my Chevy Blazer does. They are pointed upward. They hit average treetop level (30-40ft) at around 200 yds. Can't adjust them any lower. One is brand new including the housing and its correspoding height adjustment screw. SignatureJonny >My Fox doesn't have fog lamps. But my Chevy Blazer does. They are pointed >upward. They hit average treetop level (30-40ft) at around 200 yds. Can't >adjust them any lower. One is brand new including the housing and its >correspoding height adjustment screw. Meaning that they create a lot of glare for oncoming drivers (and drivers you are behind when they look in their rear view mirrors). If you use them in the fog, they would create a lot of glare back at you. Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. >How are current US model VWs set up? Did older models have the wiring and >lamp sockets? It varies depending on the model. No VW came here with working rear fogs but the retrofit process varies depending on what model it is. On my late Mk2 GTI, the wiring is already in place at the fog switch on the dash for the front fogs and the switch did have the 2nd position for the rear fog but since the car didn't have one (and the North American Mk2 Golfs/GTIs have completely different taillamp clusters from the Euro models), it did nothing. I used Euro spec clusters in back, spliced into the existing wiring (which disappears behind the dash somewhere so I just spliced rather than try to find where it terminated), ran it to the back driver's side, connected it to the Euro cluster, popped in the right bulb, done. On my Eurovan, I popped in the european headlamp switch first. Then it was pre-wired to the back of the car on the right side w/all the rear of the rear lamp wiring. I just joined in there, ran it out and under the bumper to the left side. Late Eurovans have the foglamp assemblies in the bumper already but they're dummies with no socket or holes. I could have bought the socket and pigtail and a new lamp assembly (supposedly available via US VW dealers) but I just went and drilled out the assembly, bought a generic socket, fitted it, connected it up, popped a bulb in, done. For the rest of the VWs out there here's what I can tell you...a rear fog has been required in Europe since 1981, so most VWs since then would have had them on their European counterparts. Mk1 Cabriolet and Rabbit convertible...external lamp under bumper...stock tails were too small to support the addition of a rear fog. Mk1 Scirocco...external lamp under bumper. Mk2 Scirocco, Vanagon, Quantum (Passat/Santana elsewhere)...integrated into taillamp. US clusters have the spot for it but have the layout rearranged...you would have to set it back to the European layout and wire it up. Not sure if the bulb holder board has the wiring tracks for it though. Mk2 Jetta - same as above (juggle the layout around but the spot is there) but 99.9% sure the bulb holder does *not* have the current tracks for it. Mk2 Golf/GTI - have to swap the entire cluster w/a Euro one and locate the wiring (if any). On late production CEII cars (late 1989-1992) with front fogs, it's in the same harness for the front foglamp switch. On non-foglamp cars, probably not pre-wired at all and on pre-early-89 models, these didn't come with front fogs at all from the factory so no hope at all there of finding any pre-wiring. Mk3 Jetta - I believe it's actually pre-wired to behind the left side taillamp in the trunk lid, goes below the backup light, spot in cluster. B3 and B4 Passat - similar location as Mk3 Jetta, suspect it might be pre-wired too as in Mk3 Jetta. Mk3 Golf/GTI - Nope. VW played around again w/Golf/GTI clusters on these and the NA ones are NA specific. No prewiring. However you can get 'close enough' with your existing clusters and bulb board by swapping a few things around and by buying the right bulbs. A3 Cabriolet - same as Mk3 Golf/GTI. B5 Passat, Mk4 jetta, Mk4 golf - Clusters I believe handle them OK as can the bulb holders. Just need to get the wiring back there and a switch. B5.5 Passat - need new bulb trays and wiring (but clusters should work) and switch. VW messed with this one big time on dual-vs.single filament bulbs, etc. so that's why new bulb trays are needed. Mk5 GTI, Rabbit, Jetta, Passat PQ34 (aka B6) - Euro clusters are waaay different, need to swap them, and also re-code the CAN-BUS control of the lamps and get a Euro switch. T4 Eurovan - late models are pre-wired to the back, need socket and bulb and switch. early models I suspect are pre-wired as well in a similar manner, so need socket, bulb, switch, but also need the lamp assembly and need to cut hole in bumper cover corner for the lamp. About the only consistency so far that i know of is that VW uses a gray wire w/white stripe for the rear fog 12V power. Haven't found an exception to that yet so if you see that wire, it might be part of what little bit is pre-wired. Good luck! I think rear fogs are illegal also, because they aren't red. The cops cant give tickets out for having a smidgen of white showing somewhere if rear fogs are allowed. Nobody will use them anyways. My Honda Goldwing has a socket in the headlight for a UK city driving (pilot) lamp. I couldn't figure out what it was for years. Anything that's a money loser for somebody, no matter how much better it is, isn't going to happen. >>How are current US model VWs set up? Did older models have the wiring and >>lamp sockets? [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > > Good luck! > Some European imports are set up for rear fogs, with everything > except a lightbulb in the socket and a switch on the dash. My old > US-model '94 Saab actually had a working rear fog light. I'm told > that some current Audis have working rear fogs. > > How are current US model VWs set up? I can't say about current models, but... > Did older models have the wiring > and lamp sockets? Both of my '87 Sciroccos have the wiring and sockets for the fog light position. There's no hole in the position which corrosponds to them in the tail light housing, though it is marked out where it should be. So, I cut them open, put in another set of parking (not brake) light bulbs, and now rather than the normal 3" or 4" square tail lights I've got what amounts to double-wide ones. The fog light postion, despite having the same bulb as the parking light, appears somewhat brighter. Perhaps the lense/reflector in that section is formed differently. What I really like about this is that I've not only got twice the area worth of tail lights than I had before, but if one goes out, I've still got an active tail light on each side. The car has been inspected three times since I did this, by three different shops. Nobody ever complained about them, and one time I actually got pulled over because one of my tail lights (one of these) was out the trooper (state police here in Mass.) made no comment about them. I suppose if I'd put brake light bulbs in there might have been issues with them. I did try a pair when I first did this, but they looks almost (but not quite exactly) like the brake lights. I also did a "fog" test with them. Parked the car, left the lights on, and walked away from it. I could see the "fog" position lights somewhat (but not a lot) further away than the others. My '84 Scirocco also has the same un-lit section in it's tail light array, but I don't remember of it had the sockets in the light block. - Bill |
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