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Car Forum / Volkswagen / Water Cooled Volkswagen Cars / January 2007'87 Scirocco 16V Oil warnings
I'm getting oil warnings on one of my '87 16V Scirocco's. The oil is full. I've checked it on level ground and dead cold. The warnings usually come around 2000 RPM, generally when in gear but occasionally when the car is just rolling along with the clutch disengaged. This Scirocco has 117K miles on it and is filled with 10W40. I have another '87 16V Scirocco with 225K on it filled with 20W50. I put 20W50 in this one to cut down on it's burning oil. It only gives warnings when the oil is at least a quart low and I corner hard. I think I recall it giving more frequent alarms when it was full of 10W40, but I may be remembering another car, and I've run it on 20W50 for so long I'm not sure anyway. What weight oil is supposed to be in these cars? - Bill > I'm getting oil warnings on one of my '87 16V Scirocco's. The oil is full. > I've checked it on level ground and dead cold. The warnings usually come > around 2000 RPM, generally when in gear but occasionally when the car is just > rolling along with the clutch disengaged. This Scirocco has 117K miles on it > and is filled with 10W40. Have you checked the sender? The oil weight would vary with the season. Peter Wieck Wyncote, PA > > I'm getting oil warnings on one of my '87 16V Scirocco's. The oil is full. > > I've checked it on level ground and dead cold. The warnings usually come [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Have you checked the sender? Sorry, I should have mentioned that I plan to do that when it's not, like, nine degrees out but haven't yet. > The oil weight would vary with the season. I suppose it could. I've never done that on any car I've owned, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't. OK, so, what weight for this time of year in the north east of the United States? I'm running 20W50 in the other 16V year round, and it starts fine even at minus 5 degrees F. - Bill Like Peter said...........use different weights for different temps. You might want to check the oil pressure during different rpms of the warm engine. Do you have any head gasket problems or leakage? Your engine IIRC has two oil pressure devices on it, one being a switch and the other being a combo pressure sending unit and switch. Been too long since I have worked on a Scirocco! lol Either or both devices could be faulty. The one I would check is probably on the oil filter housing or should be cheap to change. You could also have a faulty low oil pressure warning module around the speedo. I insist on using good quality oil filters like MANN or MAHLE and good brands of oil. What are you using and did you just change it? later, dave (One out of many daves) > I'm getting oil warnings on one of my '87 16V Scirocco's. The oil is > full. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > - Bill > Like Peter said...........use different weights for different temps. > > You might want to check the oil pressure during different rpms of the warm > engine. > Do you have any head gasket problems or leakage? Not that I can see. I've never found any oil on the ground under it. The only oil I see on the engine is where I sometimes spill some filling it. > Your engine IIRC has two oil pressure devices on it, one being a switch and > the other being a combo pressure sending unit and switch. Been too long > since I have worked on a Scirocco! lol I'll have to dig out the Bently. It's in my office here somewhere. > Either or both devices could be faulty. The one I would check is probably > on the oil filter housing or should be cheap to change. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I insist on using good quality oil filters like MANN or MAHLE and good > brands of oil. What are you using and did you just change it? Oil was just changed because the valve cover gasket failed around the #2 cylinder. Filled the spark plug well with oil. As far as I know, they used the same parts they've been using on the other 16V for years, but now that you bring it up, I'll check. This warning thing has occasionlly occurred since I got the car (late last year) after a high speed (4000RPM+) extended (five or more miles) run. And it often happened when the oil was over a quart low. It's now happening more often, with no dramatic driving, and with the oil full. All it actually seems to take is for the engine to reach normal operating temperature. - Bill On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 23:06:09 -0500, in rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled (message <D8qdnRx5Gp5Y7CDYnZ2dnUVZ_vupnZ2d@comcast.com>), William J. Leary Jr. <Bill_Leary@msn.com> wrote: > This warning thing has occasionlly occurred since I got the car (late > last year) after a high speed (4000RPM+) extended (five or more > miles) run. And it often happened when the oil was over a quart low. > It's now happening more often, with no dramatic driving, and with the > oil full. All it actually seems to take is for the engine to reach > normal operating temperature. I had two experiences on an 8v some years ago that might be of relevance to you. First, the wiring in the engine compartment generally was breaking down. The car was over 10 years old at the time, and the insulation on wires tended to be brittle. Moreover, with the combination of road crap and heat under the hood, wires were themselves somewhat corroded, which meant that their impedence could be higher than expected. Among other symptoms, I had a persistent but intermittent oil-pressure warning happen. On top of all of this, it turned out that I had a failing seal on the oil cooler. I ended up writing off the car when the oil pressure warning came on, and I pulled over in my usual way to make sure it wasn't just some stupid electrical connection. It was not: there was oil _everywhere_ under the hood. It was dark night, it was winter, and a snow storm was coming up. I abandoned the car, and had it towed to the wrecker the next day, since I had nowhere to work on it anyway. Oddly, my father happened to be there when it came in (yes, I come from a line of car geeks), and had a look at it. He concluded it was leaking at the oil cooler. All he had to do was take the cooler off the engine body, replace the O-ring, and put it back on. He drove that car for several more years. As I say, that was an 8v with the "doughnut" oil cooler between the oil filter flange and the engine proper. But it might be worth considering. Good luck, A > I had two experiences on an 8v some years ago that might be of > relevance to you. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > on wires tended to be brittle. > ((..omitted..)) Well, this one's twenty. I did give the wiring the "once over" yesterday, but I'll go over it more closely as soon as it's warm enough and I'm home in daylight. > On top of all of this, it turned out that I had a failing seal on the > oil cooler. > ((..omitted..)) Yes, I've had that same failure. I think the 16V has the same oil cooler thing, but as I recall (and you mention) when that O ring went, I got a considerable mess under the car. I'm just not seeing any oil under the car at all. And even if that were the issue, it's full now and has been for a week and I'm still getting buzzes. And for one other detail, it does only happen when the engine gets to normal temperature. It was very cold here this morning and on my drive to work the temperature never got UP to normal, and no buzzes or lights. On the trip home this evening, it was 20F warmer out and it DID get up to full temp and I DID get buzzes and warnings. - Bill Why not take it in and have the oil pressure checked? If it's O.K. at least you can start fault diagnosing without worrying about seizing the motor. Replacing both switches is relatively cheap and easy to do after that it could be the voltage regulator in the gauge cluster or even the printed circuit. > > I had two experiences on an 8v some years ago that might be of > > relevance to you. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > - Bill > Why not take it in and have the oil pressure checked? If it's O.K. at > least you can start fault diagnosing without worrying about seizing > the motor. Mostly that it's awfully inconvenient right now to get my car to the shop and pick it up again. But yes, I agree. It's probably the best place to start. I was considering just putting in an oil pressure gauge. So, next question, what's normal pressure? I expect if I ever find the Bently manual in the mess that is my office, it'll tell me. > Replacing both switches is relatively cheap and easy to do > after that it could be the voltage regulator in the gauge cluster or > even the printed circuit. I have to take the cluster out anyway to fix the odometer, so I may as well check the regulator while I've got it out. Another reason to get around to doing it, I guess. - Bill Hmmm No leaks huh and the warning light comes on when low on oil but now even when it is full. Well here are my experiences with my 16V 2.0l engine in my '91 Passat. My engine liked to be full of oil, or even overfull or while driving the annoying buzzer and light would activate. I thought it was a bad or broken oil pump since the oil level was in the crosshatch area. No damage to the oil pan and the dipstick guide was fine BTW. Well my cyl. head gasket was slightly leaking externally (oil and coolant) and oil would even migrate into the cooling system. Well I got tired of it and popped the cylinder head off. I cleaned up all of the drain holes to make sure the oil returns easily to the pan. I had cleaned up the mating surfaces & checked for straightness. No machine work needed. <g> I have not had any other problems with the oil pressure warning system or oil in the cooling system since the head gasket and the rodding of the drain holes. It might have been the head gasket was blocking the return holes too. The story is actually much longer than this, but I am trying to indicate that maybe the oil return holes might be a little clogged and the oil is staying in the upper part of the cylinder head. later, dave (One out of many daves) "William J. Leary Jr." <Bill_Leary@msn.com> wrote in message snip > > I insist on using good quality oil filters like MANN or MAHLE and good > > brands of oil. What are you using and did you just change it? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > often, with no dramatic driving, and with the oil full. All it actually seems > to take is for the engine to reach normal operating temperature. > Hmmm > No leaks huh and the warning light comes on when low on oil but now even [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that maybe the oil return holes might be a little clogged and the oil is > staying in the upper part of the cylinder head. Well, I suppose I could try an engine old flush to make sure. And now that you mention it, I'll check the coolant too to make sure it's not going that way. - Bill This means that the oil pressure is below 1.8bar (25.2psi) when the engines runs above 2100 rpm. Could be a simple defective switch or in worse case bearing trouble. The pressure switches are located on the top of the filter housing. SFC >> Hmmm >> No leaks huh and the warning light comes on when low on oil but now even [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > - Bill > This means that the oil pressure is below 1.8bar (25.2psi) when the engines > runs above 2100 rpm. Could be a simple defective switch or in worse case > bearing trouble. The pressure switches are located on the top of the filter > housing. Thanks. I went looking for them this afternoon, and examined the upper part of the filter mount based on someone elses suggetion. I found two very similar (covered with road grime, anyway) looking sensors there. I was a bit surprised they're that close together. Look fairly simple to replace, so I'll do that. I'm also going to have the shop run a pressure test on it. - Bill Those two switches may not be switches. One may be oil pressure and the other may be oil temp. If you remove one and see pressure range you got the correct one. If you see one that has temp in C then you got the oil temp switch. >> This means that the oil pressure is below 1.8bar (25.2psi) when the engines >> runs above 2100 rpm. Could be a simple defective switch or in worse case [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > - Bill This is true for the 8v engine which has one switch on the side of the cyl. head and one on top of the filter housing. SFC > Those two switches may not be switches. One may be oil pressure and the > other may be oil temp. If you remove one and see pressure range you got [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> >> - Bill Thanks. I'm going to buy the replacement part first so I'll be sure what I'm looking at when I get it off the car. Still haven't found the Bentley manual I've got around here somewhere. That would make this a bit easier. - Bill > This is true for the 8v engine which has one switch on the side of the cyl. > head and one on top of the filter housing. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >> > >> - Bill Check both sensors, well they are actually switches. One switch is normally closed when there's no pressure and the other is normally open. Do you also hear the buzzer? SFC > I'm getting oil warnings on one of my '87 16V Scirocco's. The oil is > full. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > - Bill > Check both sensors, well they are actually switches. One switch is normally > closed when there's no pressure and the other is normally open. Do you also > hear the buzzer? Yes, it buzzes too. Occasionally I seem to get a very short buzz without the LED coming on at all. - Bill This means that the oil pressure is below 1.8bar (25.2psi) when the engines runs above 2100 rpm. Could be a simple defective switch or in worse case bearing trouble. The pressure switches are located on the top of the filter housing. SFC >> Check both sensors, well they are actually switches. One switch is >> normally [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > - Bill |
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