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Car Forum / Volkswagen / Water Cooled Volkswagen Cars / March 20071987 Golf injectors?!?!
I just bought a 1987 golf 1.8 gas, and the thing will not start anymore, it starts then if you start giving it gas it dies. I just had one of the gas lines fixed since the previous owner pinched it or something. It had the symptoms of no gas line pressure (whenever you hit inclines and such and such). Now that I had the line the car wont start completely , I think the car might of dirty injectors since the mechanic ran it out of gas ( gas guage needs to be rewired). Any ideas? I personally know the mechanic so fuckin' me over is entirely out of the question. On Mar 9, 1:50 pm, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > I just bought a 1987 golf 1.8 gas, and the thing will not start > anymore, it starts then if you start giving it gas it dies. I just had [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ideas? I personally know the mechanic so fuckin' me over is entirely > out of the question. You have done the obvious? Checked the fuel pressure? Fuel filter? Tank screen? Good strong spark? Will it idle if you start it? Or just sputter until it chokes? Not quite enough information for other than shotgun suggestions. Peter Wieck Wyncote, PA On Mar 9, 1:56 pm, "p...@aol.com" <p...@aol.com> wrote: > On Mar 9, 1:50 pm, "the_lower_class_brat" > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Peter Wieck > Wyncote, PA It starts and dies basically as if the injectors were rediculousy dirty, no fuel pressure, or a really weak spark. On Mar 9, 6:33 pm, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 9, 1:56 pm, "p...@aol.com" <p...@aol.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > - Show quoted text - "... as if..." Have you checked the fuel pressure? Have you checked the spark? Have you checked anything or is it that you want those here to gaze into their crystal balls and pull the singular solution out of the air (or elsewhere more towards their nether regions)? Start by attemting to start it at night and see if there are any sparks playing about the wires. Pull one wire and see what color spark it makes to a good ground. Put a pressure gauge on the fuel rail and see what you get... and so forth. Help us out a bit so we can help you. Peter Wieck Wyncote, PA >It starts and dies basically as if the injectors were rediculousy >dirty, no fuel pressure, or a really weak spark. for starters replace the fuel filter or get a gauge to check the fuel pressure > I just bought a 1987 golf 1.8 gas, and the thing will not start > anymore, it starts then if you start giving it gas it dies. I just had [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ideas? I personally know the mechanic so fuckin' me over is entirely > out of the question. I had those symptoms on my '87 GTi (1.8 l, 8V, CIS-e). It was due to a faulty main fuel pump (as opposed to the in-tank transfer fuel pump). A fuel pressure test will tell. The main fuel pump is expensive, so you wouldn't want to just throw parts at the problem. Make sure that you don't have a massive intake leak. Make sure that the intake manifold to fuel distributor boot is on tightly with nothing missing from it. If the spark is weak the plug electrodes should be wet and dark when you pull them out. I will ASSuME that you put enough fuel in the tank. Did the mechanic run it out of gas or was there only a little gas in the tank because most of it leaked out? Check the fuel pressure! >I just bought a 1987 golf 1.8 gas, and the thing will not start > anymore, it starts then if you start giving it gas it dies. I just had [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ideas? I personally know the mechanic so XXXXX me over is entirely > out of the question. > Make sure that you don't have a massive intake leak. > Make sure that the intake manifold to fuel distributor boot is on tightly [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > ideas? I personally know the mechanic so XXXXX me over is entirely > > out of the question. Its at the shop. I assume he checked the fuel pressure when he did the lines, I have a couple spare main fuel pumps (dont ask). That was my first guess since the previous owner said it was that, but \ also most things he said turned out to be lies, so I told the mechanic to check out the pump. And as for testing I can't really give you that much of a detailed description of the problem since its been at the shop for about the past week and a half, and at this point Im ready to take matters into my own hands, but I can't even get the car off the lot. I worked on one VW that would not run. After testing this and that I found out that....... Someone had switched the lines going to the fuel distributor. :-o Just a thought! >> Make sure that you don't have a massive intake leak. >> Make sure that the intake manifold to fuel distributor boot is on tightly [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > about the past week and a half, and at this point Im ready to take > matters into my own hands, but I can't even get the car off the lot. > I worked on one VW that would not run. After testing this and that I found > out that....... > Someone had switched the lines going to the fuel distributor. :-o > Just a thought! If the car has CIS (K-Jetronic) or CIS-e (KE-Jetronic) injection, swapping the lines to the injectors from the fuel distributor does not matter, there is continuous flow in all four lines (the "C" in CIS stands for continuous). The cold start injector is different, it only turns on briefly during starting. > >> Make sure that you don't have a massive intake leak. > >> Make sure that the intake manifold to fuel distributor boot is on tightly [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > about the past week and a half, and at this point Im ready to take > > matters into my own hands, but I can't even get the car off the lot. lol tell that to the engine when it didn't start until I switched the lines to their correct positions. Remember that there is a pressure valve inside of the fuel distributor that holds pressure inside of the fuel distributor. ;-) So having the lines reverse the pressure never got high enough inside of the fuel distributor. I will assume that there was an engine transplant just before it was brought to me. Or SABOTAGE! ;-) AFAIK The "main" things that affect fuel pressure, fuel pump, check valve, warm up regulator, fuel distributor, etc.  Signaturelater, dave (One out of many daves) >> I worked on one VW that would not run. After testing this and that I >> found [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] >> > about the past week and a half, and at this point Im ready to take >> > matters into my own hands, but I can't even get the car off the lot. > lol > tell that to the engine when it didn't start until I switched the lines to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > fuel distributor. I will assume that there was an engine transplant just > before it was brought to me. Or SABOTAGE! ;-) The four ports on the fuel distributor on CIS and CIS-e systems do the same thing, there is no timing, no sequencing. The same holds true for the injectors; They are identical, no timing, no sequencing. Crossing the fuel lines between the fuel distributor and the injectors makes no difference. > -- > later, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > stands for continuous). The cold start injector is different, it only > > turns on briefly during starting. lol Ahhh A little bit of miscommunication........I understand you now! But I was referring to the MAIN fuel lines going into and coming out of the fuel distributor both going to the rear of the vehicle (fuel tank). NOT the fuel injector lines. ;-) But you are right about the fuel injector lines. <g> Signaturelater, dave (One out of many daves) >> lol >> tell that to the engine when it didn't start until I switched the lines [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> > stands for continuous). The cold start injector is different, it only >> > turns on briefly during starting. > lol Ahhh A little bit of miscommunication........I understand you now! > But I was referring to the MAIN fuel lines going into and coming out of the [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > >> > stands for continuous). The cold start injector is different, it only > >> > turns on briefly during starting. Well the mechanic came to the conclusion that the timing is almost completely f.cked therefor the car not firing properly. Im having my timing belt changed as I type this.... 200 dollars later.... >Well the mechanic came to the conclusion that the timing is almost >completely f.cked therefor the car not firing properly. Im having my >timing belt changed as I type this.... 200 dollars later.... and now you have to pay the 200$ fine for using nasty language in here AGAIN On Mar 13, 9:34 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > >Well the mechanic came to the conclusion that the timing is almost > >completely f.cked therefor the car not firing properly. Im having my > >timing belt changed as I type this.... 200 dollars later.... > > and now you have to pay the 200$ fine for using nasty language in here > AGAIN Rough day rather days. I'm sorry if you were in any way offended by the obscurity of 2 words, stop trying to change the subject. Anyways, any opinions on the mechanics diagnosis? >On Mar 13, 9:34 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >the obscurity of 2 words, stop trying to change the subject. Anyways, >any opinions on the mechanics diagnosis? well - if it's a failed belt due to teeth lost , making the spark timing off - ok > BUT but you said the car starts but won't stay running when giving it throttle. could be a sheared key maybe - and if he is right there doing a belt - you should replace the waterpump cause it's right there. lol - no I was not offended but we don't see to much language like that in here I have seen this problem a few times. Usually it was some teeth on the Timing belt missing and one time it was hollow teeth which appeared visually good. And of course the broken crank sprocket Both allowed the camshaft timing to change but sometimes would start only to die again as it went out of time. Sometimes you could hear the compression as the starter turned over the engine and sometimes it sounded like no compression. You learn from the 'hours' of diagnosing on the first Timing belt failure to check all the ones that come in with a starting/running problem. lol I have also found that an oil pump overpressurizing the hydraulic lifters (cam followers) and keep the valves open so compression is lost. This I have only seen once on a rebuilt engine with a new oil pump and I never would have believed it. Engine would start and run for a very short time and then calmly die. Crank over engine and it sounded like no compression unless you let the engine sit for awhile. Signaturelater, dave (One out of many daves) > On 13 Mar 2007 19:27:52 -0700, "the_lower_class_brat" > <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > lol - no I was not offended but we don't see to much language like that in > here > I have seen this problem a few times. Usually it was some teeth on the > Timing belt missing and one time it was hollow teeth which appeared visually [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > lol - no I was not offended but we don't see to much language like that in > > here Okay, Great info, much appreciated!! Oh yeah Today when I went to pick up the car before hearing I needed a new belt, I got the car idoling fine popped it into reverse rolled a bit(synchros are messed up always mess up 1 and reverse ) then popped it into first and Conk the thing died out! The car started fine before I took it to the shop, the mechanic said the timing was off and he fiddled with it but obviously Im guess he just made it worse, and now the car wont start. Anyways bottom line is that Im 99% it needed a new timing belt anyways because I have no record of it ever being replaced. Now Ill be sure that its good to go and the timing will be set up properly. On 13 Mar 2007 20:23:33 -0700, in rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled (message <1173842613.587040.163250@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>), > fine popped it into reverse rolled a bit(synchros are messed up always > mess up 1 and reverse ) If I had to bet, I'd say that's not the synchros, but the shift linkage. The car's the right age, too. Actually, this car sounds like it has a lot wrong with it. I hope you got it for a song, because if you have to take it to the mechanic all the time who misdiagnoses things, you're going to find you'd be able to buy a new car with the money you spent on the mechanic. I suggest you get a Bentley manual for yourself, and then read up on possible issues with the car _before_ you take it to the mechanic. An educated consumer, &c. &c. A On Mar 14, 2:43 pm, Andrew Sullivan <a...@ringer.phlogiston.dyndns.org> wrote: > On 13 Mar 2007 20:23:33 -0700, in rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled > (message <1173842613.587040.163...@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>), [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > A I have the Service manual, I dont have a garage and theres snow everywhere, and I personally know the mechanic. He said either way the belts going to have to be replaced, same with everyone at the garage (car is john deer green, everybody knows it at the garage). Since the car is a non interference engine, the engine is somewhat still fine. AS for buying another car, its out of the question, I need a car PRONTO for school and back. Although the car isnt functioning at the moment, it will (emphasize on "will") be good on gas, which is the main reason why I purchased the beater. >> with the car _before_ you take it to the mechanic. An educated >> consumer, &c. &c. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >moment, it will (emphasize on "will") be good on gas, which is the >main reason why I purchased the beater. lol , john deere green , any fun attachments? ( moxwer deck , plow , ect....) my three rabbits with good winter tyres were snomobiles ( jd makes snomachines too) here's the question from me to you do you spend money now for the water pump ( yeah , i've been a student with money flow 'issues' ) OR later for the w.p. plus the labor to install it. quote : an educated consumer &c. &c. unquote, A said ... it's like fire insurance for your house one day : a little money each month to insure it , or possible loss of everything in a fire PLUS no ins. money ( always share you're treasured digital pictures with people that's really cheap insurance ) yeah ok , a little dramatic comparison but you get my drift i had a 74 99 ems saab one time ( actually a very long time ) that was SUNSET ORANGE lol, i don't know which car, your j.d. green golf or that saab would get more attention On Mar 14, 7:01 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > >> with the car _before_ you take it to the mechanic. An educated > >> consumer, &c. &c. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > i had a 74 99 ems saab one time ( actually a very long time ) that was SUNSET ORANGE > lol, i don't know which car, your j.d. green golf or that saab would get more attention Haha, sounds like a treasure, but atleast your car probably ran, mines a giant piece of you know what, A person who has worked with vws their whole life suggested to check out the coil. I also should of check the relay... but now that lawn mower wont even start. It's rather funny because the 1.8s are so small they could pass for some sort of MEGA mower. Should of never gave up my honda accord for this, even though I rather hate honda and am a huge VW enthusiast. Well this completely suscks, the mechanic replaced the belt and its still not running, tried dist cap, tried everything. I forgot to say that I can only get it to idol if I pump the gas for a bit, but soon as I try to get it in gear, it stalls, like as if it's starving on gas. I don't understand this and neither do the mechanics, it has become quite the brain twister. Also sounds as if it might be choking for air, ive tried looking at the filter but its tough with the idiotic fuel lines in the way. But I dont think that an air filter could get so dirty as to the car not even start properly. On Mar 16, 11:17 am, "the_lower_class_brat" But I dont think that an air filter > could get so dirty as to the car not even start properly. Sure could if some squirrels or mice decide that this is their storage facility. Been there, done that. Peter Wieck Wyncote, PA >Well this completely suscks, the mechanic replaced the belt and its >still not running, tried dist cap, tried everything. I forgot to say [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >idiotic fuel lines in the way. But I dont think that an air filter >could get so dirty as to the car not even start properly. Like Peter said , yes the air intake/filter can be blocked so badly that the engine won't run. Also the exhaust ( like the inlet of the cat ) can be blocked to the point the engine wont run. Hmmm that would mean you need to find another mechanic! Did you have to pay since the problem was not solved? Whereabouts are you so we can find someone to help you. If you still want to repair it yourself....................... There are tools you can use in order to diagnose what is wrong or what is happening. Vacuum gauge can help you find vacuum leaks or problems with a cat. conv. Fuel pressure gauge can help you find a problem with the fuel system. The Bentley repair manual can help you understand your engine and it's systems. Your senses can help you locate wiring broken or the intake manifold boot cracked. I guess I would pull out the injectors and point them into containers, remove the large intake manifold boot to access the fuel distributor plate, jump the fuel pump relay to run the fuel pumps, turn the ign switch to the 'ON' position and pull up the fuel distributor plate while examining the injectors. Report findings and please use common sense and safety precautions. Signaturelater, dave (One out of many daves) > On 16 Mar 2007 08:17:19 -0700, "the_lower_class_brat" > <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > that the engine won't run. Also the exhaust ( like the inlet of the > cat ) can be blocked to the point the engine wont run. >I have also found that an oil pump overpressurizing the hydraulic lifters >(cam followers) and keep the valves open so compression is lost. This I >have only seen once on a rebuilt engine with a new oil pump and I never >would have believed it. Engine would start and run for a very short time >and then calmly die. Crank over engine and it sounded like no compression >unless you let the engine sit for awhile. oh my , i'm going to keep this one in mind and hope I never run across it. > lol Ahhh A little bit of miscommunication........I understand you now! > But I was referring to the MAIN fuel lines going into and coming out of the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > dave > (One out of many daves) Oh, THOSE lines to the fuel distributor. Yeah, I wouldn't want to argue that they were interchangeable... > >> lol > >> tell that to the engine when it didn't start until I switched the lines [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >> > stands for continuous). The cold start injector is different, it only > >> > turns on briefly during starting. On 9 Mar 2007 10:50:52 -0800, in rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled (message <1173466252.867249.136240@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>), > anymore, it starts then if you start giving it gas it dies. I just had > one of the gas lines fixed since the previous owner pinched it or > something. . . . > hit inclines and such and such). Now that I had the line the car wont > start completely , I think the car might of dirty injectors since the > mechanic ran it out of gas Have you changed the fuel filter after all this? You had the fuel system open, and you rand it out of gas, which means whatever crap was floating on top of the fuel in the tank was probably sucked into the fuel line. Also, you do know that the pumps -- there are two, remember -- are cooled by the fuel, right? So one of them might be burned out now. All of this aside from the good advice everyone else is giving, which is basically, "Start with the first things, then proceed through each step." Random troubleshooting usually gets you nowhere. A |
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