 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Volkswagen / Water Cooled Volkswagen Cars / April 2007EGR VALVE!
Okay so I found that supposively the "egr" wire has a screw shoved in it, and at the dist cap where theres usually a thing there (checked my freinds mk2 out) is missing, would this cause the engine to not run properly, also there is a small hole drilled in the air box near the gas dis, someones obviously been playing with the car. Anyways the car starts runs for about a minute then slowly dies, woudl this be the problem, and if you try to go in gear underload forget it. On Mar 23, 3:32 pm, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Okay so I found that supposively the "egr" wire has a screw shoved in > it, and at the dist cap where theres usually a thing there (checked my [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > starts runs for about a minute then slowly dies, woudl this be the > problem, and if you try to go in gear underload forget it. The screw is shoved in the entrance that would normally go into where the dist cap is, but that part is missing. >On Mar 23, 3:32 pm, "the_lower_class_brat" ><the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >The screw is shoved in the entrance that would normally go into where >the dist cap is, but that part is missing. this URL is for a picture of the vacuum advance unit attached to the distributor. http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=qilcjt55wlnwxa55ft0mat55&makei d=800026@VW&modelid=1281675@GOLF%20GL&year=1987&cid=25@Ignition%20Parts&gid=7232 @Vacuum%20Advance Is the screw in the the vacuum tube? It sounds like someone just eliminated the egr system and this probably is not the problem. Does the fuel pump in the gas tank run? Take the cap off and put your ear to the filler tube and have somebody turn the key to the run position. The power wire to that pump also supplies power to make your fuel gauge work. It sounds like they disconnected the timing advance and the egr vacuum control. The timing advance would not affect your idle, or starting, the egr could make a crappy idle, loss of power, overheating, or poor gas mileage. It depends on if the vacuum opens or closes the egr valve, and if the washer is missing inside the egr valve. but it would still start. The egr wire is probably a vacuum line. All vacuum lines must be plugged or hooked up, If you put your finger on the end while the car is running , if it sucks your finger it is a vacuum line. There will be no vacuum with the car off. Also see if there is a vacuum drawing on the car under the hood which shows where the lines go to. A leak or open line will make your car run crappily and could affect starting. The hole in the air box is not important. > On 23 Mar 2007 12:33:58 -0700, "the_lower_class_brat" > <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > The power wire to that pump also supplies power to make your fuel gauge > work. > It sounds like they disconnected the timing advance and the egr vacuum > control. The timing advance would not affect your idle, or starting, the egr [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > The power wire to that pump also supplies power to make your fuel gauge > > work. It's not in the air box exactly though, it's on the metal that on top of it, that the fuel dist plugs into. What color wire goes to the dist?I got 2 and if I change them it makes no difference On Mar 24, 10:21 am, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > It sounds like they disconnected the timing advance and the egr vacuum > > control. The timing advance would not affect your idle, or starting, the egr [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > What color wire goes to the dist?I got 2 and if I change them it makes > no difference Also it starts and runs but you can't floor it or it chokes, cant rev past 5k. once you get to 5 k you can keep it there for about 5 seconds, and its slowly goes down no matter how much gas you give it. So this makes me to believe that this is the problem. Also I get some sort of ping clickety sound once and a while, sounds like an engine knock but I'm not sure. >What color wire goes to the dist?I got 2 and if I change them it makes >no difference other than the coil and four spark wires , you have a hall effect transducer in the base of the distributor , which in all my schematics have three wires. from a 86 golf schematic : all three are 18 gauge bk/w , br/bk , g ( the green wire does have a white stripe after the connector ( the wiring to the electronic ignition module ) On Mar 24, 10:52 am, samst...@aol.com wrote: > >What color wire goes to the dist?I got 2 and if I change them it makes > >no difference [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > all three are 18 gauge bk/w , br/bk , g ( the green wire does have a white > stripe after the connector ( the wiring to the electronic ignition module ) Okay because now I have 2 wires at the coil a yellow and a green, and at the base of the dist I have 2 brownish wires one with what appears to be a red stripe going to the dist cap, but when I switch them up it has no effect what so ever. now when I try to start it I need to pump the gas pedal. >On Mar 24, 10:52 am, samst...@aol.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >has no effect what so ever. now when I try to start it I need to pump >the gas pedal. test The picture i posted is very typical of all hall sensors. the plug with the terminals is what you should see/have at the base of your distribtor. Three wires going from that plug ( on the dist. ) to the electonic ignition module ( pins 3, 5 , 6 ). Out of pin 1 of the electronic ignition module a green/black wire goes to terminal 1 on your coil. The other yellow wire on your coil goes to your ignition switch. On Mar 24, 11:46 am, samst...@aol.com wrote: > The picture i posted is very typical of all hall sensors. the plug with the terminals > is what you should see/have at the base of your distribtor. Three wires going > from that plug ( on the dist. ) to the electonic ignition module ( pins 3, 5 , 6 ). > Out of pin 1 of the electronic ignition module a green/black wire goes to terminal > 1 on your coil. The other yellow wire on your coil goes to your ignition switch. wheres the picture? >On Mar 24, 11:46 am, samst...@aol.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >wheres the picture? I hope you saw the picture by now , I never posted a picture to the news group before and it did not go as smoothly as I thought it would. Anyway the post by me at 10:28 AM with subject line : Re : EGR VALVE! hall.jpg On Mar 24, 2:51 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > >On Mar 24, 11:46 am, samst...@aol.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > before and it did not go as smoothly as I thought it would. Anyway the post by me > at 10:28 AM with subject line : Re : EGR VALVE! hall.jpg Well apparently my timing is off, the engine has a pully from a 2L and mine is the 1.8. >Well apparently my timing is off, the engine has a pully from a 2L and >mine is the 1.8. If the car still starts and runs for 10 seconds I really don't a pully has anything to to with your problem. On Mar 24, 10:12 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > >Well apparently my timing is off, the engine has a pully from a 2L and > >mine is the 1.8. > > If the car still starts and runs for 10 seconds I really don't a pully has > anything to to with your problem. Well yes actually because the timing is completely off, you can't get the timing marks lined up with this pully. >On Mar 24, 10:12 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Well yes actually because the timing is completely off, you can't get >the timing marks lined up with this pully. Actually No. What does the rail fuel pressure do when your engines stops? On Mar 24, 10:12 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > >Well apparently my timing is off, the engine has a pully from a 2L and > >mine is the 1.8. > > If the car still starts and runs for 10 seconds I really don't a pully has > anything to to with your problem. And it never runs smooth smooth smooth, always very rough. > On Mar 24, 10:12 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: >> On 24 Mar 2007 17:36:32 -0700, "the_lower_class_brat" [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > able to turnthe distributor, it by hand while its ruing and see if there > is an improvement or not. >> And it never runs smooth smooth smooth, always very rough. > He could set the timing using a timing light. Or by ear. Depends on where [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > able to turnthe distributor, it by hand while its ruing and see if there > is an improvement or not. Timing of the crankshaft , cam , and intermediate shaft ( and thus the distributor ) is though the timing belt. The v-belt pulley may have the timing mark on it but really has nothing with the timing other than to give a place to check the timing. It doesn't matter to the engine timing what size the pulley is because " zero " on the crank will be "zero" on the pulley everytime around no matter what the size of the pulley. OK post the year, type and location of vehicle in the Subject line please. :-) Is this an '87 Golf like that link of the dist. vac. advance unit? Did the '87 Golf even have an EGR valve? Is this some CA or non-USA vehicle? Well I know it is not a 16V since they did not have a vac advance on the distributor. <g> Back to the basics: Check the timing belt alignment. Also check for TDC with the #1 piston in it's highest position. Check the firing order of the spark plugs. Rotor rotates in a CW direction. Check for any cracks in the intake manifold boot and make sure it is clamped down. BTW You could do a compression test too. ;-) Sometimes a "tune-up" does wonders, new plugs & wires, cap, rotor, fuel+oil+air filters, oil. ;-) Is the oil level too high, too thin feeling and smell of gas? What do the electrodes of the spark plugs look like? A weak spark can cause running problems too. Bad ign. coil or one wired backwards? later, dave (One out of many daves) > OK post the year, type and location of vehicle in the Subject line please. > :-) [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > dave > (One out of many daves) Well my freind whos been working on cars since he was 6 had one look at my timing markings, and was like "what the fudge was the mechanic thinking when he did the timing?". We personally both know the mechanic so we headed to the shop and asked "why are the timing marks completely off?" He said that he couldnt get them to line up because the pully is one from a 2L. He said when he ligned up all the marks perfectly the car wouldn't start. So therfor he had to guess the timing. What about the specifics of this car? I have corrected some timing belts job incorrectly done at the dealer. So mistakes can be made! <g> > Well my freind whos been working on cars since he was 6 had one look > at my timing markings, and was like "what the fudge was the mechanic [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > perfectly the car wouldn't start. So therfor he had to guess the > timing. > What about the specifics of this car? > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > perfectly the car wouldn't start. So therfor he had to guess the > > timing. The car is a 1987 Golf. Hmmm is the 2l pulley and 1.8l pulley that different, and I assume he is talking about the Camshaft sprocket/pulley and not the V-Belt pulley on the front of the crank. I think the 2l Cam Sprock only adds a front mark that points upward. Brief Timing Belt Instructions: 1. The Crankshaft should be aligned using the flywheel/driveplate reference '0' mark (located in transmission viewing hole) and that should be double checked with the #1 piston at TDC. 2. Then set the Intermediate Shaft alignment (or look at distributor rotor pointing at notch on dist. body). 3. Finally set or lay the Camshaft Sprocket's notch (back side of sprocket) at the valve cover surface (spark plug side). Adjust the tensioner CW to tighten the belt and revolve the engine 720 degrees and recheck your marks. BTW I don't think that mechanic knows VWs! >> "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote in >> message [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > The car is a 1987 Golf. > Hmmm is the 2l pulley and 1.8l pulley that different, and I assume he is > talking about the Camshaft sprocket/pulley and not the V-Belt pulley on the [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > > The car is a 1987 Golf. Nope! he definately doesn't, but my freind took on look at my markings and knew they were off, therefor explains the car running like poo. But anyways Im going to buy the cam pulley tomorrow and hopefully that will solve the problem. Now it leaves me to the conclusion that the engine is not in anyway stock. The car has been painted 2 times already, and its just screaming that some idiot fancied himself a mechanic and tried doing a swap. >Nope! he definately doesn't, but my freind took on look at my markings >and knew they were off, therefor explains the car running like poo. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >already, and its just screaming that some idiot fancied himself a >mechanic and tried doing a swap. If the engine starts and runs ( even roughly ) >repeatedly< even though it stalls , the timing belt and the enging timing with the cam sprocket/interm. shaft is fine. The spark timing set by the position of the distributor is a different thing. The timing can be off alot and keep running , with or without the vacuum advacnce attached to the distributor. What " timing markings" are you talking about? the marks on the cam sproket / crankshaft / intermediate shaft? or the marks down the hole on the flywheel? There is no pulley on the cam. You will have a real hard time buying it. Pulleys attacked to the crank sprocket ( crankshaft ) won't cause your problem. V-belt powered things...could care less if that pulley is a bit bigger. A different sized cam sprocket installed is just to nuts. No one would do that ! Why won't you answer any questions about the fuel pressure both Dave and I ask you about from your first posts ' replaced fuel line ' ? I am ASSuME-ing that now there are more problems. The engine could still start with the camshaft timing off a notch or two. It will run like poo but I think this OP has more problems keeping it running too. I agree that the wrong size sprocket is just nuts and there is no pulley on the camshaft sprocket.......................unless...............there is that supercharger kit installed. I seem to remember one being made for these engines years ago. But I am sure the OP would have told us that. lol FIND A VW SPECIALIST AND LET THEM KEEP YOUR VEHICLE UNTIL IT IS REPAIRED!!!! Whereabouts are you again?  Signaturelater, dave (One out of many daves) > On 25 Mar 2007 17:34:28 -0700, "the_lower_class_brat" > <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Why won't you answer any questions about the fuel pressure both Dave and I > ask you about from your first posts ' replaced fuel line ' ? >I am ASSuME-ing that now there are more problems. >The engine could still start with the camshaft timing off a notch or two. I hear you ( been there done that and couldn't believe i had no one else to blame ) .............................. I ass-u-me-d the timing belt was done correctly, I guess because Class Brat didn't say after the belt job the engine ran worse than before. I still think the problem is fuel related , either a simple electrical connection fault or the tank pump croaked when it was run out of gas. >It will run like poo but I think this OP has more problems keeping it >running too. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Whereabouts are you again? gotta love the last week of march , snow is almost gone and some birds are back. > I am ASSuME-ing that now there are more problems. > The engine could still start with the camshaft timing off a notch or two. [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Why won't you answer any questions about the fuel pressure both Dave and I > > ask you about from your first posts ' replaced fuel line ' ? Well obviously they did because my friend at the garage said that was the problem, and I'm pretty sure he's definitely 100% not lying to me. And that would explain the car running like complete crap. Well now Im starting to think that you guys were right, I bought the 1.8 camshaft pulleu, and its the exact same, the car just doesnt seem to like to stay on time. Hmmm if the camshaft timing keeps shifting then possibly the Crankshaft Sprocket lost it's notch by being loose. I have seen this a few times due to improper torquing of the Sprocket bolt. You need to check it out and possibly replace it if it is bad. Use a little Locktite during installation. While doing this check your timing belt also. ;-) I have had a couple of vehicles with strange timing belt issues. The belts did not lose their teeth but the teeth seemed to be crushable allowing timing to change. Weird! > Well now Im starting to think that you guys were right, I bought the > 1.8 camshaft pulleu, and its the exact same, the car just doesnt seem > to like to stay on time. > Hmmm if the camshaft timing keeps shifting then possibly the Crankshaft > Sprocket lost it's notch by being loose. I have seen this a few times due [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > 1.8 camshaft pulleu, and its the exact same, the car just doesnt seem > > to like to stay on time. The belt is brand new, so I doubt that is the case, but yea Ill check that all out, Id ont have timing light, but thats like saying you cant tune a guitar without a tuner. Anyways Ill tell you how tomorrow goes. >The belt is brand new, so I doubt that is the case, but yea Ill check >that all out, Id ont have timing light, but thats like saying you >cant tune a guitar without a tuner. Anyways Ill tell you how tomorrow >goes. Tuning a guitar w/o a tone ( or freq. tuner ) to go by will get your guitar tuned to itself only. But chances are not so good that the guitar will be tuned to any other instruments. {{ it can happen though }} Because the engine starts again and again even though it doesn't keep running suggests the mechanical timing ( ie , crankshaft / intermediate shaft / cam shaft along with the timing belt ) is good. The spark timing to the mechanical timing is done by rotating the distributor. Because your engine starts again and again suggests this is close enough too. If you actually have a problem with the mechanical timing the chances of it running at all , time after time are slim to nill. {{ it can happen though }} I know you don't have all the tools that would aid you in getting your engine to keep running strongly. It takes years to build your collection of tools and it is a never ending task. It would be worth your to time to at least look at the ( in tank pump / fuel level ) wiring at the top of fuel tank. Your in dash fuel gauge gets power from the same wire at the top of the tank that supplies power to the in tank pump. You may find a faulty connection there like many others have found, which when corrected fixes not only the in dash gauge plus the engines full running power. Checking those wires , plus listening for the in tank pump running requires a phillips screwdriver and your ear. A dented in bottom of a fuel tank could cause problems with both the gauge and the in tank pump. You did say there was a smashed fuel line so maybe the tank got smashed too , while your john deere was plowing the fields. :-) ( a little dry humor , don't take it the wrong way ) but look at the tank bottom. On Mar 27, 9:30 am, samst...@aol.com wrote: > >The belt is brand new, so I doubt that is the case, but yea Ill check > >that all out, Id ont have timing light, but thats like saying you [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > the tank got smashed too , while your john deere was plowing the fields. :-) > ( a little dry humor , don't take it the wrong way ) but look at the tank bottom. Well whatever, the car runs just runs like sh.t, and the timing is off 100% so im going to need to fix that either way. On Mar 27, 1:26 pm, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 27, 9:30 am, samst...@aol.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Well whatever, the car runs just runs like sh.t, and the timing is off > 100% so im going to need to fix that either way. Fuel guage works perfect. >Fuel guage works perfect. I just bought a 1987 golf 1.8 gas, and the thing will not start anymore, it starts then if you start giving it gas it dies. I just had one of the gas lines fixed since the previous owner pinched it or something. It had the symptoms of no gas line pressure (whenever you hit inclines and such and such). Now that I had the line the car wont start completely , I think the car might of dirty injectors since the mechanic ran it out of gas ( gas guage needs to be rewired). Any ideas? I personally know the mechanic so fuckin' me over is entirely out of the question. the above is your post and you said the guage needs to be rewired. I'm glad to see you got that fixed. >Well whatever, the car runs just runs like sh.t, and the timing is off >100% so im going to need to fix that either way. What timing is off? The mechanical timing or the spark timing? I'm guessing you mean the mechanical timing because you have no timing light to check the spark timing. Tell us how you know the mechanical timing is off, 100%. On Mar 27, 4:39 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > >Well whatever, the car runs just runs like sh.t, and the timing is off > >100% so im going to need to fix that either way. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > no timing light to check the spark timing. > Tell us how you know the mechanical timing is off, 100%. broke a gas line from the dist trying to pop out the injectors, fixed the line and tried to start the car to get all the crap out of the line, to find out there is no gas coming out of injector line 1. Im thinking a relay, where's the fuel pump relay? I have the set up where the relays have their own seperate box behind the bottom piece to the dash. On Mar 28, 8:37 am, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 27, 4:39 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the relays have their own seperate box behind the bottom piece to the > dash. Also how would I go about testing a relay, as in jumping it style. >Also how would I go about testing a relay, as in jumping it style. if you hear the click and the pumps runnings the relay is ok to power the pumps manually the terminals on relay socket have to be jumped (30 , 87) On Mar 28, 10:12 am, samst...@aol.com wrote: > >Also how would I go about testing a relay, as in jumping it style. > > if you hear the click and the pumps runnings the relay is ok > to power the pumps manually the terminals on relay socket > have to be jumped (30 , 87) Well im missing a fuel regualtor and a fuel filter, those hicks at the garage are going to die. Not literally, but Im atleast getting my money back. On Mar 28, 1:22 pm, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 28, 10:12 am, samst...@aol.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > garage are going to die. Not literally, but Im atleast getting my > money back. Okay so I got the new pump but I can figure out where some stuff goes, I know where the one from the tank goes, but theres this pressure looking valve what do you do with this? On Mar 29, 1:42 pm, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 28, 1:22 pm, "the_lower_class_brat" > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I know where the one from the tank goes, but theres this pressure > looking valve what do you do with this? Do I connect it to the accumulator? I have to ask ..................'Do you have a repair manual'? Bentley is the best but Haynes makes information more user friendly. ;-) That is probably the first tool that you need since you are fighting an uphill battle with the ISSUES with your Golf. The pictures inside the manual should help you determine what is missing and how to hook it back up again. Your main fuel pump is housed in a plastic box with a fuel filter on one side of that box and I believe the accumulator is on the other side of that box under your car. They kinda look like saddlebags to me. ;-) Signaturelater, dave (One out of many daves) "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> > > wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Do I connect it to the accumulator? > I have to ask ..................'Do you have a repair manual'? > Bentley is the best but Haynes makes information more user friendly. ;-) [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > > Do I connect it to the accumulator? I have the haynes, but the sketch is terrible Or so I find. Theres 2 inserts on the top of the pump shaped liked a v, one with an arrow heading in another with it heading out, Im guessing one of the lines goes from the tank goes in and the other goes towards the injectors. On Mar 29, 10:33 pm, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > I have to ask ..................'Do you have a repair manual'? > > Bentley is the best but Haynes makes information more user friendly. ;-) [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > heading in another with it heading out, Im guessing one of the lines > goes from the tank goes in and the other goes towards the injectors. I'm not getting any power to my gas pumps, unlesss they both have failed... >I'm not getting any power to my gas pumps, unlesss they both have >failed... there is a 20 amp fuse in the fuse box ( probably # F10 ) that supplies power from the battery to the fuel pump relay terminal 30 on the relay when it's plugged into its socket. Does your fuel pump relay click when you turn the key to the run position? Trying to help you, but it is a little difficult. I am sorry if this seems harsh or cold but I am getting confused with all of the different problems along with seemingly conflicting replies, with your vehicle. You have a Haynes manual but sometimes your replies are not clear to me. <:-( You are "not getting any power to your gas pumps" would mean, to me, that you are not getting any electrical juice to the fuel pumps. BUT you think that they have possibly both failed. They will not work unless they get power to them!!!! ;-) Tell us WHAT is happening, WHAT you have tested, HOW you have tested it and tell us your findings. Keep it simple for us without your conclusions, JUST THE FACTS PLEASE, for example. **** Fuel pumps are not working. I don't get any fuel pressure in the system when I disconnect a line. I do have fuel in the tank but I get no fuel out of an open fuel line of the cold start valve when I crank over the engine. I have tried to bypass the fuel pump relay but still the fuel pumps don't operate.***** Two options. 1. Take your time and read your manual well so you can understand the systems on your car. A Bentley manual might help you more, but read the Haynes over and over again since it is more user-friendly and you already have it. ;-) OR 2. Take it to someone that does. <g> Good luck, dave (One out of many daves) "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in message > I'm not getting any power to my gas pumps, unlesss they both have > failed... My relay clicks, but I get no noise from the pumps. >My relay clicks, but I get no noise from the pumps. The clicking means the coil in the relay is getting power through the key. ( terminals 15 and 31 on the relay). This power is supplied through a different circuit than the power that supplies power to the pumps and fuel gauge. (terminals 30 and 87 on the relay ) So most likely the 20 amp. fuse has blown. A great tool ( and a very low cost one to boot ) is a test light. A socket and bulb from any junker car with a couple feet of wire on each lead and two aligator clips works great. Try the tester / tool : one lead to the neg. of the battery the other to the pos. terminal of the battery. The bulb will light up. Always do this check first so you KNOW the ' tool' is good. In your case here , with a test light you could SEE if power is on the female terminal ( in the relay socket ) that correspondes to the one big male terminal 30 on the relay with the relay pulled. One lead of the test lamp to a good ground , and the other lead of the test lamp to that female terminal in the relay socket will light the bulb if the fuse is good ( the key does not have to be in the run position for this test ). If the bulb doesn't light the fuse is blown open. A good ground connection is a must. Let me know if you don't know what a good ground means. I'll explain that if you don't. If the bulb does light with that test ( fuse is good ) then using the test light at the pumps wiring will tell you if the power is getting to the pump through the relay. Put that relay back in. Then at the pump connect one lead of the test light to the ( green/black stripe ) wire and the other lead of the test light to (a good ground or the brown wire). Then turn the key to the ( run / on position ) and the test light should go on. If the test light does light that tells you : power is getting to the pump and the pump is probably no good. If the test light does not come on : the relay is not switching pump power through itself ( from 30 to 87 ) or the wiring has an open ( doubtful ). DoctorDave , is this information beyond the KISS limits? ;-/ Beyond me samstone! lol I ALWAYS check electrical components by powering them with an external power source. This eliminates faulty wiring and insufficient power and then I can conclude that the component is dead or alive. <g> Many times the relay can click but may not complete the circuit and supply power. These relays are known to fail. ;-) I usually use a jumper wire after I remove the relay to supply power to the fuel pumps. One or two times that jumper wire gets really hot (not normal) and melts the insulation so be careful. > On 1 Apr 2007 00:12:44 -0700, "the_lower_class_brat" > <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > DoctorDave , is this information beyond the KISS limits? ;-/ > Beyond me samstone! lol > [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > > DoctorDave , is this information beyond the KISS limits? ;-/ How do I make a jumper wire, jsut to test? On Apr 1, 11:04 am, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Beyond me samstone! lol > [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > How do I make a jumper wire, jsut to test? Woohoo! I got power to the pumps, now its just a question of it being hooked up wrong because Im getting no fuel to the injectors. so far I have the fuel filter going to one of the slots on the accumulator, then the other one is going to the opening on the pump itself. then a thin line going to a straight end on the side of the pump housing and then I have the in and the out on the top of the pump housing (v shape inserts). Im just mixed up about the how abouts of installing it with the accumulator and all. >Woohoo! I got power to the pumps, now its just a question of it being >hooked up wrong because Im getting no fuel to the injectors. so far I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >inserts). Im just mixed up about the how abouts of installing it with >the accumulator and all. output of tank pump goes input of main pump output of main pump goes to input of accumulator output of the accumulator goes to the input of the fuel filter output of the fuel filter goes to the input of the fuel distributor output of the fuel distributor goes back to the fuel tank and control pressure regulator Hearing the pumps run does not mean they are pumping fuel. The input to the pump could be blocked. Good flowchart on the '87 Golf samstone! ;-) Glad you hear the fuel pumps running. HOW did you get them to run? I agree with a possible blockage. I had to clear a blockage right at the inlet of the main fuel pump box on a couple of Jettas. On Apr 1, 4:46 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > >Woohoo! I got power to the pumps, now its just a question of it being > >hooked up wrong because Im getting no fuel to the injectors. so far I [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Hearing the pumps run does not mean they are pumping > fuel. The input to the pump could be blocked. What hose clicks onto the pump itself? theres an L shaped valve looking adapter at the end of it. I have another pump that I tested with a booster that works. so if worst comes to worst Ill have to disconnect the other pump. >> output of tank pump goes input of main pump >> output of main pump goes to input of accumulator [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >with a booster that works. so if worst comes to worst Ill have to >disconnect the other pump. Sorry , can't help you any further than what I posted, ( above) with this question. http://volkswagen.msk.ru/injector/k-jetronic/k-jet8v.pdf tell us what you are referring to! That damper unit may not be on yours, it may just have a cap nut. > On 1 Apr 2007 15:37:09 -0700, "the_lower_class_brat" > <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Sorry , can't help you any further than what I posted, ( above) > with this question. > http://volkswagen.msk.ru/injector/k-jetronic/k-jet8v.pdf > tell us what you are referring to! [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Sorry , can't help you any further than what I posted, ( above) > > with this question. OKay if someone could make a drawing in ms paint then post via photobucket hen send me the link that would be a god given gift. On Apr 2, 11:43 am, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >http://volkswagen.msk.ru/injector/k-jetronic/k-jet8v.pdf > > tell us what you are referring to! [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > OKay if someone could make a drawing in ms paint then post via > photobucket hen send me the link that would be a god given gift. Im going to take the photo and show you exactly what I mean. On Apr 2, 12:03 pm, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Apr 2, 11:43 am, "the_lower_class_brat" > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Im going to take the photo and show you exactly what I mean. http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l28/the_lower_class_brat/pump.jpg Those are the hoses that I dont udnerstand as they just rather disappear in the diagram On Apr 2, 12:03 pm, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Apr 2, 11:43 am, "the_lower_class_brat" > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Im going to take the photo and show you exactly what I mean. OH and yea the way I have it set up right now is those 2 mysterious things connected, is there even supposed to be something connected to the opening of the pump? >On Apr 2, 12:03 pm, "the_lower_class_brat" ><the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >things connected, is there even supposed to be something connected to >the opening of the pump? Sorry , I thought you could not open the .pdf file. The output of the pump goes to the input of the accumulator. Exactly as the two ' circled ' parts of the picture you posted. The fuel line is only partially shown in the picture ( both ends are : one in each of the ' circled ' areas. ) On Apr 2, 12:03 pm, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Apr 2, 11:43 am, "the_lower_class_brat" > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Im going to take the photo and show you exactly what I mean. How do you tell the in from the out on the regulator? ant the input on the side of the pump housing has a skinny wire that if you disconnect pisses gas everywhere, I suppose this is in the right place. and the fuel filter goes from the accumulator to the front of the car right? >How do you tell the in from the out on the regulator? ant the input on >the side of the pump housing has a skinny wire that if you disconnect >pisses gas everywhere, I suppose this is in the right place. and the >fuel filter goes from the accumulator to the front of the car right? I don't know what you mean by regulator. The ouput of the pump goes into the accumulator . The output of the accumulator goes to the input of the filter. The output of the filter goes up front to the engine. On Apr 2, 1:20 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > >How do you tell the in from the out on the regulator? ant the input on > >the side of the pump housing has a skinny wire that if you disconnect [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > goes into the accumulator . The output of the accumulator goes to > the input of the filter. The output of the filter goes up front to the engine. Ooooops my bad, Accumulator. How do you tell the in and out of the accumulator. >On Apr 2, 1:20 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Ooooops my bad, Accumulator. How do you tell the in and out of the >accumulator. http://replacement.car-stuff.com/parts/carstuff/quote.jsp?year=1987&product=E400 0-22074&application=000185299&part=Fuel%20Accumulator&category=E&returnurl=null& dp=false&showdc=true#top is a picture of the accumulator The one most in the center is the output which feeds the filter. On Apr 2, 1:51 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > >On Apr 2, 1:20 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > is a picture of the accumulator > The one most in the center is the output which feeds the filter. I thought the pump was dead but obviously the wires around it are not giving it power, it gives power to the top one (that is what I was hearing before, because I hooked a batter charger up to it to test and it pumps but it leaked near the accumulator, which leads me to think its either broken or the tubes are in the worng place. On Apr 2, 2:32 pm, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Apr 2, 1:51 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > it pumps but it leaked near the accumulator, which leads me to think > its either broken or the tubes are in the worng place. This is when I wished I had a multimeter to test the relays and connections. >> I thought the pump was dead but obviously the wires around it are not >> giving it power, it gives power to the top one (that is what I was [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >This is when I wished I had a multimeter to test the relays and >connections. I kinda figured you didn't have a multimeter , that's why I wrote the post about using a bulb/socket w/leads. My post from yesterday @ 7:59am. It's a very cheap tool to make but it can used in many places. Does your battery charger make the main pump run? Make sure you get the positive to the correct connection on the pump. ( see that same post ) Now maybe you can help me , how did you get that .jpg picture from the .pdf file? What are the steps you used to do that? ( you yungens know all this puter stuff ) On Apr 2, 5:15 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > >> I thought the pump was dead but obviously the wires around it are not > >> giving it power, it gives power to the top one (that is what I was [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > file? What are the steps you used to do that? ( you yungens know all this > puter stuff ) Oopen the file and look at the desired page, then press 'print screen' (this basically copies every that your computer is viewing) now open microsoft paint and pres ctrl v or go into the edit tab and press paste, and voila!! Now as for that "welfare" multimeter, basically take an old light chop the prong end off and put it up against anything you're testing and if it lights up then obviously there is power going through those wires. but that doesnt help me for testing a relay. On Apr 2, 5:32 pm, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Apr 2, 5:15 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Oh print screen (print scr) is located near the backspace key, above the directional keys. >Oh print screen (print scr) is located near the backspace key, above >the directional keys. Schweet , I have that print scr key but have never used it in 9 years w/this computer. I'll give that a try in the morning. Thank you. Testing a relay out of circuit can be done with a test light . In the case of this relay its switch inside is normally open. a jumper to terminal 30 and one side of the battery , then one lead of the test light to terminal 87 and the other lead of the test light to the other pole of the battery. The lamp wont light till you power up the coil - a jumper from one side of the battery to terminal 15 then another jumper wire from terminal 31 to the other pole of the battery and the lamp will light up if the relay is good. Even if you had a meter you would have to power the coil to check for a closed circuit across terminals 30 , 87 . > Now as for that "welfare" multimeter, >basically take an old light chop the prong end off and put it up >against anything you're testing and if it lights up then obviously >there is power going through those wires. but that doesnt help me for >testing a relay. No , I'm talking about a 12v lamp and its socket from a junker car with a couple feet of wire attached to the socket. ( like a reverse light from a junked car) . Putting a bulb against a wire does nothing except if that bulb is a neon bulb and the wire is high voltage, like a spark plug wire. Do you have a junk yard near you where you can go in and pull parts from junkers? A golf near your year would be ideal so you could get a fuel relay , a lamp/socket with wire leads , and both pump plugs ( the female connector that plugs into the pumps with six inches of its wire ) . The pump plugs can be used to test your pumps with your battery charger. It makes it easy and helps to insure you don't short out things when testing the pumps. Also you can inspect things like how that accumulator is hooked-up. When I had to remove the dash cluster from my car to replace dash lights, I went to a junk yard first and removed a cluster on a junker so when I did it to my car I didn't break anything. On Apr 3, 7:00 am, samst...@aol.com wrote: > On 2 Apr 2007 14:32:18 -0700, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> > wrote:> Now as for that "welfare" multimeter, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > yard first and removed a cluster on a junker so when I did it to my car > I didn't break anything. All this seems rather extreme, but luckily my freind has a multimeter, and my other freind owns his own scrap yard, so I have access to mk2 parts for dirt cheap. thanks for the help though. When I hooked the battery charger up to the pump it started leaking out of the accumulator. The hose seemed a bit loose so I tightened the hose, but havent tried again. maybe I have the hoses backwards but as one of you said the filter is hooked up to the middle socket. ALSO should I hear pump noise when I turn the acc on? Because I only hear it when I try to turn the car over. It buzzes for about a second after I stop turning the key. >All this seems rather extreme, but luckily my freind has a multimeter, >and my other freind owns his own scrap yard, so I have access to mk2 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >to turn the car over. It buzzes for about a second after I stop >turning the key. Checking a relay the way I described is better than an meter because you are putting a load across the internal switch, it's only one more jumper wire. The pumps should run for a two seconds when you turn the key to the ( run/on ) position with out turning the key to engage the starter position. I don't think they run in the acc. position. I played around with the 'prt scr' and using 'ctrl v ' command was able to get the page to open in ms paint. I've always used a image program program that came with my first digital camera so I'm not at all familiar with the paint and will need to do some reading on it. Thanks >> http://volkswagen.msk.ru/injector/k-jetronic/k-jet8v.pdf >> tell us what you are referring to! [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >OKay if someone could make a drawing in ms paint then post via >photobucket hen send me the link that would be a god given gift. http://volkswagen.msk.ru/index.php?p=page03_kj once you have this page , point and " RIGHT CLICK " at the link "K-Jetronic fuel injection - 8 valve engines" ( in the middle of that page ) and 'save the target as' ( the .pdf file to your desktop ) Then you can open the .pdf file on your desktop with acrobat reader. That's how I did it anyway. Doctor Dave , is it possible the pumps on this golf are only running in the start position on the key and when its released to the run position the pumps don't run yet the car ( runs?) on accumulator pressure for a short period? On Apr 3, 5:17 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > Doctor Dave , is it possible the pumps on this golf are only running > in the start position on the key and when its released to the run position > the pumps don't run yet the car ( runs?) on accumulator pressure for a > short period? I got the pump pumping I need to solder the little connector joints where the wire terminal connect to the pump. But Im pretty sure its hooked up properly, the car is about 180degrees off time but its backfiring, so that means its getting some gas. the lines go under load when the pump runs so I guess its giving out good ammounts of pressure. I had to double hose clamp the gas line on because the first time I got a gasoline shower, gotta love getting down and dirty. With this Golf...anything is possible samstone! lol It does sound like progress IS being made! Hang on in there tlcb! Backfiring sounds like the engine will run again and you are close. ;-) Also sounds like you are having fun too! > On Apr 3, 5:17 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > pressure. I had to double hose clamp the gas line on because the first > time I got a gasoline shower, gotta love getting down and dirty. > With this Golf...anything is possible samstone! lol > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > pressure. I had to double hose clamp the gas line on because the first > > time I got a gasoline shower, gotta love getting down and dirty. For the past 3 weeks I have heard nothing but " TAKE THAT THING TO THE SCRAP" but no sirry am I giving up, this summer I want to rebuild the engine with my mechanic freind, wel in some new sheet metal in some areas, and such and such. Yea it does sound like I am getting close, Im having a *bitch* of time getting the motor on time, the cam pulley has more timing marks then I dont even know actually, its almost as if the guy was trying to do his home work on the damn thing. anyways Tomorrow I will do the timing, the thing that really got me though is how the mechanic hooked up the pump, no accumulator, and just an open valve on the pump itself rendering the pump nothign but useless. And he wondered why the thing refused to stay running properly. >For the past 3 weeks I have heard nothing but " TAKE THAT THING TO THE >SCRAP" but no sirry am I giving up, this summer I want to rebuild the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >valve on the pump itself rendering the pump nothign but useless. And >he wondered why the thing refused to stay running properly. http://icelord.net/vw/doc/1081-02c.pdf any help here with the mech. timing marks? On Apr 4, 8:37 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > >For the past 3 weeks I have heard nothing but " TAKE THAT THING TO THE > >SCRAP" but no sirry am I giving up, this summer I want to rebuild the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > http://icelord.net/vw/doc/1081-02c.pdf > any help here with the mech. timing marks? Woofa! I opened my valve cover before and thought my motor was basically screwed (driven to crap) because there was no bearing cap on #4. Feeling of relief. On Apr 5, 10:47 am, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Apr 4, 8:37 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > basically screwed (driven to crap) because there was no bearing cap on > #4. Feeling of relief. what about a fuel filter? The one that the guy installed is tiny, atleast 1/8th the size of the bosch filter. You think this could be causing some problems? and also there is a hole drilled in the fuel dist, not actually in it but the huge metal plate that sits ontop of the airbox. My freind said that the engine is probably getting too much air. Also what abotu the vaccum advance that goes to the distrubitor, is this needed, because I dont have one. The line is jsut plugged there. The hole is supposed to have an aluminum plug inserted in it. The older cars had a rubber plug so you could adjust a mixture screw inside there. If someone removed the plug then someone was messing with something that should not have been messed with. The newer cars adjust their mixture with the feedback loop of the oxygen sensor. Refer to your Bentley for the proper basic setting for that adjustment for your car. Define tiny in inches or millimeters. My 84 had a smaller fuel filter than what it could take. Smaller was maybe an inch smaller in diameter but the filter was still about 3 inches in diameter. Look on the hood for a vacuum tubing diagram. If your hood is from your car it should have the hose routing there. At least that was true in 1984. >On Apr 5, 10:47 am, "the_lower_class_brat" ><the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >distrubitor, is this needed, because I dont have one. The line is jsut >plugged there. What Jim said I think the early 80s (83-84) Cabriolets and the GTIs took a BOSCH 401(?) fuel filter by the air filter which might have been larger than the other Rabbits, but that size was increased even more with the BOSCH 601(?) fuel filter in the 85-87 Jettas/Golfs. That size is generally what is used to date AFAIK and is about the size of 2 baseballs put together. Not too sure of those older numbers though. > The hole is supposed to have an aluminum plug inserted in it. The > older cars had a rubber plug so you could adjust a mixture screw [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >>distrubitor, is this needed, because I dont have one. The line is jsut >>plugged there. > What Jim said > I think the early 80s (83-84) Cabriolets and the GTIs took a BOSCH 401(?) [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > >>distrubitor, is this needed, because I dont have one. The line is jsut > >>plugged there. Its about 2 inches MAX in diameter and 3 inches long aprox. The old one is about 4-4 1/2 inches in diameter and about 5-6 inches long. I was exagerating when I said 1/8th, it just looks TINY compared to the other one. Anyways as for that mixture screw could I just put some teflon tape and a flat style screw in there? Because at the moment there is nothing there. It looks like its been playe with so I'd need to buy a slightly bigger screw because the metal is slightly stripped. >> What Jim said >> I think the early 80s (83-84) Cabriolets and the GTIs took a BOSCH 401(?) [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] >there is nothing there. It looks like its been playe with so I'd need >to buy a slightly bigger screw because the metal is slightly stripped. http://volkswagen.msk.ru/injector/k-jetronic/k-jet8v.pdf Is picture 7.2 the hole your're talking about? If it is read about it in section 7. Does your filter look like the one pictured here ? http://www.performance-cafe.com/product_info.php?cPath=7_170&products_id=1042 with banjo gas line fittings or Does your filter look more like this one? http://www.performance-cafe.com/product_info.php?cPath=6_160&products_id=889 with male nipples for the fuel lines? On Apr 6, 12:03 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > >> What Jim said > >> I think the early 80s (83-84) Cabriolets and the GTIs took a BOSCH 401(?) [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > Does your filter look more like this one?http://www.performance-cafe.com/product_info.php?cPath=6_160&products... > with male nipples for the fuel lines? It looks like the first filterAnd the pdf doesnt want to load. but I uploaded the pdf image of where the hole is located. http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l28/the_lower_class_brat/coscrew.jpg On Apr 6, 1:41 pm, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Apr 6, 12:03 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > It looks like the first filterAnd the pdf doesnt want to load. but I > uploaded the pdf image of where the hole is located.http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l28/the_lower_class_brat/coscrew.jpg When I undo the wires to the intank pump it has no effect on the problem (same problem happens) so could it be that? the wires don't exactly look right. Someone obviously hacked the wires back there, because there was electrical tape and poor wiring jobs done. Its wierd the pump connector has 4 wires but in the harness there is only 3. the wires on the pump connector are as follows 1 orange 1 orange with a blue stripe 1 purple with a black stripe and one red with a yellow stripe. The wires that were spliced and connected to those were as following, 1 purple with a black stripe, 1 brown, 1 green with a black stripe. The 2 oranges were connected to the brown, the purple was connected to the purple and the red was connected to a green with black stripe. >When I undo the wires to the intank pump it has no effect on the >problem (same problem happens) so could it be that? the wires don't [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >connected to the purple and the red was connected to a green with >black stripe. Yes , someone replaced the connector to the in tank pump / fuel gauge with one different from the orignal. The wires in the harness are 1. Brown : the ground for the pump 2. Green w/ black : this is the 12volt supply wire to the pump ( let me add here that somewhere in the harness this green w/black is spliced to the Green with balck stripe wire that powers the main pump too). 3. Violet w/black stripe : this goes to the fuel guage in the dash. So if the fuel gauge works and the IN TANK runs and pumps fuel then the replaced connector is most likely wired properly. How many female terminals are in the plug itself? ( are both orange wires going to the same terminal ?) On 6 Apr 2007 10:41:17 -0700, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote:> >It looks like the first filterAnd the pdf doesnt want to load. but I >uploaded the pdf image of where the hole is located. >http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l28/the_lower_class_brat/coscrew.jpg The filter you have sounds like it should be ok. The hole in air flow metering casing is there to allow adjustment of the CO mixture and should have a plug in it . The adjustment should not be done without using a exhaust gas analyser. Let's hope who ever removed this plug DID NOT just start tweaking this adjustment. But you should plug this hole. Trying to put a screw in there is risky because of debris you may make getting the screw threads started. Is your engine a 16 valve engine like this picture shows? I was going to ask this too but then remembered all of the problems with the timing belt so I will still ASSuME that it is a 8 valve gas engine. <g> > Is your engine a 16 valve engine like this picture shows? >I was going to ask this too but then remembered all of the problems with the >timing belt so I will still ASSuME that it is a 8 valve gas engine. <g> Ever since Mike Stafford got the ' safe code ' for his radio I just can't think because of the music playin'. Turn it down. j/k mike :-) On Apr 6, 9:14 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > >I was going to ask this too but then remembered all of the problems with the > >timing belt so I will still ASSuME that it is a 8 valve gas engine. <g> > > Ever since Mike Stafford got the ' safe code ' for his radio I just can't > think because of the music playin'. Turn it down. Its the 8 valve engine, its so wierd how to time those engines, took me forever to figure out. Anyways I installed the pump and all, but if I try to give it any gas after I rev it at start, forget it, its like a kill switch basically. >On Apr 6, 9:14 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >I try to give it any gas after I rev it at start, forget it, its like >a kill switch basically. What happens if you start it and don't touch the gas? On Apr 7, 11:53 am, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Apr 6, 9:14 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I try to give it any gas after I rev it at start, forget it, its like > a kill switch basically. Took apart the intank pump but theres no gas with the arrow out only in the line with the arrow in. The line out was dry dry dry. which doesnt make any sense to me. I drew a thing in paint describing how I have most of my pump set up. Some lines I dont understand. http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l28/the_lower_class_brat/pumpsetup.jpg On Apr 7, 6:24 pm, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Apr 7, 11:53 am, "the_lower_class_brat" > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > doesnt make any sense to me. I drew a thing in paint describing how I > have most of my pump set up. Some lines I dont understand.http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l28/the_lower_class_brat/pumpsetup.jpg If I dont touch the gas it will run for maybe max 30 seconds. and rough idle like crazy. >On Apr 7, 11:53 am, "the_lower_class_brat" ><the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >have most of my pump set up. Some lines I dont understand. >http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l28/the_lower_class_brat/pumpsetup.jpg Doesn't your Bentley repair manual have a tank diagram? My 80-84 manual has one. That manual shows 5 holes in the tank. A fuel float, big connection from gas cap, little connection to vent tank when filling, connection to expansion tank, to fuel pump and fuel return from engine. There is a charcoal canister at the from of the car that attaches to the expansion tank to deal with fuel fumes. Guessing based on some google searches. In tank transfer pump should go to the big pump which goes to the accumulator, then to filter and then to front of the car. There should be a return line and probably an expansion tank. I might guess that the hoses are not hooked up correctly. That green line should be going to the pump sitting outside the tank. I would guess the teal line should go to the accumulator and filer. Of course I would have purchased a Bently for the car by now. My dad had repair manuals for his cars when I was growing up. I have had repair manuals for my VWs. Google search comments: One thing you could do (which i just did on my 89 cabriolet) is take out the transfer pump that's in the tank under the back seat (easy to do). You could then clean or replace the strainer. You need to have the tank at less than 3/4 full and be REALLY careful (fire extinguisher handy and no smoking). And make sure the surrounding area is clean so you don't get any dirt in the tank. More the point, the main fuel pump (next to the tank) has, I believe, a "fuel pump check valve" attached to it. If this is not working properly, you will have hot-starting problems (according to bentley). By the way, you really need to get the Bentley repair manual---nothing comes close. http://www.aicautosite.com/garage/encyclop/ency07c.asp On Apr 7, 7:19 pm, Jim Behning <jimbehn...@doesthisblockpork.mindspring.com> wrote: > On 7 Apr 2007 15:24:51 -0700, "the_lower_class_brat" > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > http://www.aicautosite.com/garage/encyclop/ency07c.asp if someone could scan their bently manual fuel supply set up and send it to the following email: the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com that would be highly appreciated, I retreived a haynes manual from my freind, but the sketches are pretty terrible. Now could you view this? http://icelord.net/vw/doc/1081-04b.pdf from here http://icelord.net/vw/doc/index.html ( http://www.volkswagen.msk.ru/index.php?p=page01 ) "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in message > if someone could scan their bently manual fuel supply set up and send > it to the following email: the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com that would > be highly appreciated, I retreived a haynes manual from my freind, but > the sketches are pretty terrible. >if someone could scan their bently manual fuel supply set up and send >it to the following email: the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com that would >be highly appreciated, I retreived a haynes manual from my freind, but >the sketches are pretty terrible. Read this through twice so you get the concept as a whole then each part as you do it. On the intank pump ( lift pump ) on top of the fuel tank there are two male nipples which are the output of the pump and the return from the reservoir in the main pump. The output of the lift pump is the one on the right as you look into the holes of the nipples. ( where the wiring connector is to the intank lift pump ) To make sure this lift pump is working and so you can identify the output line of the LIFT PUMP , remove both hoses at the main pump that go to/from the lift pump. Disconnect the plug wires to the main pump . The main pump should not be run without the lift pump suppling fuel to it. ( running the main pump w/o the supply of fuel from lift pump CAN cause damage to the main pump ). Put both lines into a ( jug / can / container ) and turn the key to start position for three seconds. One of these two lines should pump fuel out into the container and that is output line of the lift pump. If you don't get fuel there is a problem with the lift pump or its wiring. STOP and tell us if it doesn't. If you have fuel pumping into the container you KNOW that the pump working and have identified the output line of the LIFT pump at the main pump. Mark this output line of the lift pump with something like either a wire tie ( plastic zipstrip ) or a wire tie from a bread bag. That output line of the lift pump goes to the input of the main pump. From the picture you drew two circles on and posted here on 4/2/7 @ 12:13pm. Look how that line is drawn as going into the same side ( end ) of the main pump as the output of the main pump. That is where you connect output line of the lift pump ( labeled on that picture as ' from fuel lift pump ' ). If all has gone ok so far , you should be able to tell where the return line from the engine enters back into the main pumps reservoir from that same picture. ( labeled on that picture as ' return to fuel metering distributor ' ) {{ actually it should be labeled as ' return FROM fuel metering distributor ' }} From the same picture look and see how the ' return pipe to fuel tank ' is pictured at the top of the main pumps internal reservoir . That line returning fuel to the fuel tank is at the top to aid in removing any air that may have been in this system. See how it is drawn in the picture? Both pumps run all the time while the engine is running and a continuous flow of fuel at the proper pressure is then present at the fuel distributor to be used by the injectors. If the engine isn't running the pumps are shut off when the key is in the 'run / on ' position. This protects the main pump if there is no fuel. Happy Easter. ( dang it , we got 2 inches of snow over night ) On Apr 8, 8:53 am, samst...@aol.com wrote: > On 7 Apr 2007 19:30:55 -0700, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> > wrote:>if someone could scan their bently manual fuel supply set up and send [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > 'run / on ' position. This protects the main pump if there is no fuel. > Happy Easter. ( dang it , we got 2 inches of snow over night ) Well everything is hooked up right, I completely unplugged the the pump had it out of the car and it had no effect, I believe this pump isnt an mk2 pump its got a wire harness for 4 wires and the pump looks a bit different, still says germany on it so it is for a vw Im guessing. Also I started running into VERY wierd problems, I would start the car and it would rev to 5 k and idle there.... :o I was thinking the ecu, since if I unplug just about every sensor it has absolutely no effect. The fuel pump is the real mystery, how it was running when it was completely removed from the car. And the car would just randomly rev to 5k soon as you start it, not even touching the throttle so technically not getting any air through the throttle valves. Or rather very little. On Apr 12, 2:33 am, "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Apr 8, 8:53 am, samst...@aol.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > throttle so technically not getting any air through the throttle > valves. Or rather very little. Also there is three lines going and coming from the trunk, 2 from the intank pump and another skinny black one that seems to go to the gas tank Hmmmm Progress huh? lol Got it to rev much higher now. Sounds like a large vacuum leak maybe through the idle stabilizer valve or another valve if so equipped or the throttle body plates are stuck open. Sometimes I find that the secondary TB plate can stick open and I need to free it up with good penetrating oil. The little hose going to the fuel tank might be for the venting system? Your Golf has a transfer pump in the fuel tank and a main fuel pump under the car in a box. That box will hold a bit of fuel before it runs out. But you know that already. ;-) "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> Well everything is hooked up right, I completely unplugged the the >> pump had it out of the car and it had no effect, I believe this pump [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > intank pump and another skinny black one that seems to go to the gas > tank > Hmmmm Progress huh? lol > Got it to rev much higher now. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > intank pump and another skinny black one that seems to go to the gas > > tank Its weird though the problem is rather intermittent If I leave the car sitting for a day It will be able to pull out of the drive way, but if Ive been reving it for a bit, I have no power. And it also starts misfiring after running for a bit. Should the line coming out of the intank pump to the pump revoir be under pressure? because it shoots gas, just not at that high pressure. And also what about the pump itself, I believe its not an mk2, or rather I know for a fact that its not the stock pump that came with the car. It has a connector for a four prong wire connecter and the one in my manual only shows 3. Is it possible its not giving out sufficient ammounts of gas needed? >Its weird though the problem is rather intermittent If I leave the car >sitting for a day It will be able to pull out of the drive way, but if >Ive been reving it for a bit, I have no power. And it also starts >misfiring after running for a bit. Should the line coming out of the >intank pump to the pump revoir be under pressure? If you mean : Should the line returning fuel to the ' fuel tank' have pressure? , the answer is : yes when the engine is running. If you mean : Should the line from the output of the intank lift pump to the input of the main pump have pressure? the answer is : yes when the engine is running > because it shoots >gas, just not at that high pressure. Where and when is 'it' shooting fuel? > And also what about the pump >itself, I believe its not an mk2, or rather I know for a fact that its >not the stock pump that came with the car. It has a connector for a >four prong wire connecter and the one in my manual only shows 3. Is it >possible its not giving out sufficient ammounts of gas needed? Even if this intank lift pump was the correct one the answer is yes it is possible. How much fuel was pumped in the three second test to determine which line at the main pump was the output line from the intank lift pump? Can you make the pump(s) run by the use of the jumper wire ? Yes that line/hose coming out of the transfer/intank pump going to the main fuel pump can have pressure in it. You might want to get the correct pump, buy a used one complete with box, to eliminate the possibility that the current pump is not the correct one with the correct volume and pressure. You are trying to eliminate problem possibilities! ;-) Endeavor to Persevere! ;-) later, dave "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in message SNIP > Its weird though the problem is rather intermittent If I leave the car > sitting for a day It will be able to pull out of the drive way, but if [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > four prong wire connecter and the one in my manual only shows 3. Is it > possible its not giving out sufficient ammounts of gas needed? (One out of many daves) > Yes that line/hose coming out of the transfer/intank pump going to the main > fuel pump can have pressure in it. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > (One out of many daves) As for the 5 k revs my freinds dad said to check the solenoid and also the possibility of being a vaccum leak, any good tricks to look for one? I sometimes hear the large vacuum leaks and I sometimes find the small leaks using a long hose held to my ear as I place the other end around possible leaks. some use propane or carb cleaner "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > As for the 5 k revs my freinds dad said to check the solenoid and also > the possibility of being a vaccum leak, any good tricks to look for > one? Well it's been raining all week here, and snowing like crazy, middle of april!!! but 20 this week, its going to be a scorcher, anyways tomorrow Ill be able to go look out for vaccum leaks, get back to this tomorrow with a new status report, Im thinking the pump though, seems a little fishy with that pump, bnecause when I removed it completely, it had no effect on the car running at all. If I jump the relay the pump starts fast but then gradually starts slowing down, is this normal? Or is my pump finished? Oops and also I popped my injectors out put 2 in there own little coke bottles and they didnt mist at all, it was almost just drippling/ squirting. On Apr 18, 1:58 pm, the_lower_class_brat <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Oops and also I popped my injectors out put 2 in there own little coke > bottles and they didnt mist at all, it was almost just drippling/ > squirting. Maybe a bad fuel pump relay? The problem is intermittent. And alo I popped it out and it looked a little burnt in some areas, but it still clicks fine Do you have the correct pump on the vehicle now that will supply the correct pressure and volume? Might be clogged injectors that need cleaning out. > Oops and also I popped my injectors out put 2 in there own little coke > bottles and they didnt mist at all, it was almost just drippling/ > squirting. > Do you have the correct pump on the vehicle now that will supply the correct > pressure and volume? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > bottles and they didnt mist at all, it was almost just drippling/ > > squirting. No Im getting it tomorrow, but the relay is dead now. it was burnt in some areas and I hate to pick at it and it worked for a bit but then randomly died. On Apr 18, 11:25 pm, the_lower_class_brat <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Do you have the correct pump on the vehicle now that will supply the correct > > pressure and volume? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > some areas and I hate to pick at it and it worked for a bit but then > randomly died. Whats the purpose of the line comign from the gas tank are to the long canister under the air box? AFAIK maybe that line is for gas fumes routed to the charcoal cannister to save our environment! "the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in message snip >> No Im getting it tomorrow, but the relay is dead now. it was burnt in >> some areas and I hate to pick at it and it worked for a bit but then >> randomly died. > > Whats the purpose of the line comign from the gas tank are to the long > canister under the air box? >AFAIK maybe that line is for gas fumes routed to the charcoal cannister to >save our environment! > >"the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> Whats the purpose of the line comign from the gas tank are to the long >> canister under the air box? LOL an Earthday Question and answer. :-\ so sorry, couldn't resist <BG> I had to go there! lol >>AFAIK maybe that line is for gas fumes routed to the charcoal cannister to >>save our environment! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > LOL an Earthday Question and answer. :-\ so sorry, couldn't > resist When I jump the fuel pump relay I get a clicking style sound coming from the fuel dist and all its lines, is this normal? Is it a rapid clicking or ticking sound? Might be the frequency valve which should be normal. Now if your system has the electronic fuel pressure regulator, it might not be normal. <g> Where is it clicking from exactly? > When I jump the fuel pump relay I get a clicking style sound coming > from the fuel dist and all its lines, is this normal? > Is it a rapid clicking or ticking sound? Might be the frequency valve which > should be normal. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > When I jump the fuel pump relay I get a clicking style sound coming > > from the fuel dist and all its lines, is this normal? Very hard to tell from where, but the warm up valve line and the injector lines have it the worst On Apr 23, 5:32 pm, the_lower_class_brat <the_lower_class_b...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Is it a rapid clicking or ticking sound? Might be the frequency valve which > > should be normal. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Very hard to tell from where, but the warm up valve line and the > injector lines have it the worst And ytes its rapid After all this time, I replaced every fuel related object, besides all injectors, and now she fires and drive liek a beauty, besides the idling at 2k. Any ideas? >After all this time, I replaced every fuel related object, besides >all injectors, and now she fires and drive liek a beauty, besides the >idling at 2k. Any ideas? Did you plug that hole in the throttle body that allows access to the Idle air bypass adjusting screw? WAY TO GO tlcb!!! <g> someone might have monkeyed with the throttle rest stop screw and the throttle plate is staying open some. check the larger vacuum hoses like the valve cover to intake manifold and the brake booster hose Is there also a Aux. Air Regulator on your engine? Somewhere that engine is getting more air than it should! Hear any hissing with the engine running? > On 25 Apr 2007 19:18:55 -0700, the_lower_class_brat > <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Did you plug that hole in the throttle body that allows access to the > Idle air bypass adjusting screw? > WAY TO GO tlcb!!! <g> > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Did you plug that hole in the throttle body that allows access to the > > Idle air bypass adjusting screw? I need to check my guage clusters, anyone know how to get it out, I un screw it but it doesnt seem to like comeing out, hopefully I dont have to remove the whole dash, I tried remoivng the dash today but something at the back was still holding it in place, clips perhaps? >I need to check my guage clusters, anyone know how to get it out, I un >screw it but it doesnt seem to like comeing out, hopefully I dont have >to remove the whole dash, I tried remoivng the dash today but >something at the back was still holding it in place, clips perhaps? The dash cluster removes fairly easily except for getting the speedometer cable off the back. Removeing the left hand vent and pushing the duct work back and out of the way is the only way I can get my bighands to the sp/cable release. cluster removal? START A NEW POST WITH A DIFFERENT SUBJECT! <g> How is the engine running now? Got the idle down where it should be? >> WAY TO GO tlcb!!! <g> >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > to remove the whole dash, I tried remoivng the dash today but > something at the back was still holding it in place, clips perhaps? I got the idle down to 1100-1200 now, which is alot better then 2k or at first 3k. In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, dave AKA vwdoc1 wrote: >AFAIK maybe that line is for gas fumes routed to the charcoal cannister to >save our environment! I think it also has the side effect of reclaiming that as fuel. >"the_lower_class_brat" <the_lower_class_brat@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> Whats the purpose of the line comign from the gas tank are to the long >> canister under the air box? >broke a gas line from the dist trying to pop out the injectors, fixed >the line and tried to start the car to get all the crap out of the >line, to find out there is no gas coming out of injector line 1. Im >thinking a relay, where's the fuel pump relay? I have the set up where >the relays have their own seperate box behind the bottom piece to the >dash. the pump relay can be located by feel. listen first to get you headed to the right place. When you twist the key to the ' on' position the contacts ( mechanical off/on electrical switch) ( pins 30 , 87 ) close shut making a noise CLICK and you hear both pumps run. ( pins 15 ,31 ) are terminals for the coil inside the relay which when you turn the ing. sw. from off to on energizes the coil ( in this case the coil is made around a metel core which when it has power applied to it pulls the pump power contacts closed ) ' the click' once you have the general location , keep turning the key off/on/off/on and you can feel which relay is clicking your relay may also have a 31b terminal . So when you pull the relay out you think it is, there will be 5 terminals two big ones ( 30 , 80 ) big to handle watts . two mid ones ( 15 ,31) lower watts for the coil so mid sized . one small ( 31b ) this goes other places >On Mar 24, 10:12 pm, samst...@aol.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >And it never runs smooth smooth smooth, always very rough. because - the in tank pump is NOT suppling fuel to the main fuel pump. So the main pumps gets slugs of air. I'm guessing the problem is just a poor "hot" wire connection at the connector on top of the fuel tank ( under the back seat, under the round access cover ) . >> Prolly will fix the fuel gauge too. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.