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Car Forum / Volkswagen / Water Cooled Volkswagen Cars / May 2007Changing struts
I have a 1984 VW Rabbit. I will be changing all 4 struts. I do have access to a spring compressor. Is one needed to change the struts on this car or can the strut assembly be changed without compressing the springs? Any tips for success? Thank you, ted >I have a 1984 VW Rabbit. I will be changing all 4 struts. I do have >access to a spring compressor. Is one needed to change the struts on [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Thank you, >ted Yes you will need spring compressors and they can't be the big sized ones used on bigger vehicles. There is only so much room inside the tower. I always replaced the upper strut bearing while you have the strut out. >>I have a 1984 VW Rabbit. I will be changing all 4 struts. I do have >>access to a spring compressor. Is one needed to change the struts on [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Yes you will need spring compressors and they can't be the big sized ones > used on bigger vehicles. There is only so much room inside the tower. I may be mistaken on this one I seem to recall when we replaced the struts on my friends rabbit that you could actually remove the whole front strut assembly, bearing and all before needing the spring compressor. In which case the size of the compressor would not matter. The spring compressor I used had a couple of loops that you actually bolted right to the springs so there was no danger of it letting go. Also it was very helpful to have an impact wrench to compress the spring compressor with. It takes forever with just a socket. Cheers, -Andrew Some places can sell you completely reconditioned front struts with springs already installed. Then all you have to do is swap them out. http://www.partsplaceinc.com/ should be one place. Rear shocks I can do without a spring compressor. ;-)  Signaturelater, dave (One out of many daves) >>>I have a 1984 VW Rabbit. I will be changing all 4 struts. I do have >>>access to a spring compressor. Is one needed to change the struts on [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Cheers, > -Andrew > Some places can sell you completely reconditioned front struts with springs > already installed. Then all you have to do is swap them out. > http://www.partsplaceinc.com/ should be one place. Speaking as someone who has had spring compressors let loose on him, launched a whole strut's worth of hardware down the driveway, and had the holy whee scared out of him -- I recommend these entire replacement struts wholeheartedly. They're surprisingly cost-effective, and they're a big-time saver. And, there's no danger of being impaled by anything. >I may be mistaken on this one I seem to recall when we replaced the struts >on my friends rabbit that you could actually remove the whole front strut [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Cheers, >-Andrew You are correct the strut comes out as a asmembly , tower room has nothing to do with these struts. My bad. >>I may be mistaken on this one I seem to recall when we replaced the struts >>on my friends rabbit that you could actually remove the whole front strut [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > You are correct the strut comes out as a asmembly , tower room has > nothing to do with these struts. My bad. Not so bad...indeed very usefull when you have room enough as it helps in keeping the correct suspension settings. al. >> You are correct the strut comes out as a asmembly , tower room has >> nothing to do with these struts. My bad. > Not so bad...indeed very usefull when you have room enough as it helps in > keeping the correct suspension settings. You mean you can change the strut cartridge without removing the entire strut from the car?! Please describe how you do that! Audi 5000s will let you pull the cartridges right out of the top in the engine compartment. Remove the upper plate and a large hole opens up! Kinda nice! ;-) Some VWs will let you swing the top out of the wheel well and let you change them without completely removing the strut housing. Just can't remember which models, Dasher maybe? I usually take the Rabbits and Golfs completely out of the vehicle to replace the strut cartridges. Signaturelater, dave (One out of many daves) >>> You are correct the strut comes out as a asmembly , tower room has >>> nothing to do with these struts. My bad. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > You mean you can change the strut cartridge without removing the entire > strut from the car?! Please describe how you do that! >>> You are correct the strut comes out as a asmembly , tower room has >>> nothing to do with these struts. My bad. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > You mean you can change the strut cartridge without removing the entire > strut from the car?! Please describe how you do that! Exactly, for those where there are still cartidges, and as a general, provided there is room enough, just try to unscrew the top and get the strut out of the wheel well while still connected to the lower arm. Very useful, when it can be done, for changing cartridges, broken springs, worn bearings and some spring cleaning. While very convenient for some (older) cars, I couldn't swear it can be done on VW and on which model. al. > Exactly, for those where there are still cartidges, and as a general, > provided there is room enough, just try to unscrew the top and get the > strut out of the wheel well while still connected to the lower arm. Very > useful, when it can be done, for changing cartridges, broken springs, worn > bearings and some spring cleaning. While very convenient for some (older) > cars, I couldn't swear it can be done on VW and on which model. I've never even thought to try that. It does seem that some bright engineer somewhere could come up with a little more convenient means for replacing the shock cartridges -- or a safer, more convenient spring compressor, too. >> Exactly, for those where there are still cartidges, and as a general, >> provided there is room enough, just try to unscrew the top and get the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > replacing the shock cartridges -- or a safer, more convenient spring > compressor, too. All that is just a matter of trying to keep the correct alignement settings avoiding apointements and discussions; it certainly doesn't apply to all vehicles due in most cases to tight clearance, but always worth considering or trying. For those cases where it is possible, a spring compressor is always needed anyway. al. >> Exactly, for those where there are still cartidges, and as a general, >> provided there is room enough, just try to unscrew the top and get the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >replacing the shock cartridges -- or a safer, more convenient spring >compressor, too. What is all this talk about unsafe spring compressors? I have done a small number of struts on Rabbits with no drama.I can think of six sets I have done. Install the compressor and set the safety retainers. Set the other half of the compressor with the retainer. Tighten one side down a bit. Tighten the other side down a bit. Back and forth until things are loose. 5 minutes and no fear. Just some cheap Monroe brand strut compressor kit. If I ran a shop I would want compressors that were rated for impact use. When I am done I get out the 2 foot level, two sockets and some electrical tape. Make sure the rims are straight. Get out the six foot level to make sure the tires sit on a level surface left to right, front and back. Set the camber. Get out the ink pen or a nail. Scratch a reference line on the front tires. Get out the trammel points and measure. Heck the newer cars often do not even have a camber adjustment. You just double check for grinnies and head down the road. I picked up two laser levels and need to play with setting the toe-in. I have not figured out the details yet but shouldn't be too hard. I plan on pointing the beams to the rear wheels and using some measuring device on the rear wheels to help compute the degrees. Any thoughts or hints? <g> BTW I have used the cheapest JCWhitney strut spring compressors for years (with locks on the springs to stop them from sliding) and finally upgraded to the cheap Harbor Freight tool. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3980 I like it and have used it (like a large bolt) to help change a front wheel bearing. :-) Maybe one day I might buy their more expensive non-hydraulic unit! lol http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43753 Signaturelater, dave (One out of many daves) >>> Exactly, for those where there are still cartidges, and as a general, >>> provided there is room enough, just try to unscrew the top and get the [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > measure. Heck the newer cars often do not even have a camber > adjustment. You just double check for grinnies and head down the road. >I picked up two laser levels and need to play with setting the toe-in. I >have not figured out the details yet but shouldn't be too hard. I plan on [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Maybe one day I might buy their more expensive non-hydraulic unit! lol >http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43753 I have a 1" bolt, a few pieces of 1/2" plate, a couble of pieces of cut pipe that I used to change out Rabbit front wheel bearings. Inspired by the rented Schley press. Crude and rude school. Lasers in a home shop. That is too much. I am curious to see how that adventure turns out though. My quick thought is this. Like the alignment shops get your bungie cords out to attach piece of 1x steel tubing to the front tires. Use the magnet on the level to attach it to the square tubing. Let the lasers self level if you got fancy ones. Otherwise get out the bubble level or read the bubbles. I happen to have one of those digital levels so I just have to read a number. Get out a 2x4 about as long as the lasers are wide. Nail a 12x12 piece of plywood to both ends of the 2x4. Now you have something to project the beams to. Slide the wood in front or behind the rear wheels. Mark your beams. Take it to the front of the car and set up the wood the same distance away as it was from the back and measure again. I bet if you are good with a tape measure and wood and if you know how to use a framing square you could set toe in 10 minutes. Especially if you make two projection measuring screens. I don't have any need to do an alignment soon so you first. > My quick thought is this. Like the > alignment shops get your bungie cords out to attach piece of 1x steel [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > framing square you could set toe in 10 minutes. Especially if you make > two projection measuring screens. If the lasers are parallel, they should be the same distance apart when 5 feet in front of the car, and at 10 feet in front of the car. You shouldn't need to switch between front and back. >> My quick thought is this. Like the >> alignment shops get your bungie cords out to attach piece of 1x steel [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >feet in front of the car, and at 10 feet in front of the car. You shouldn't >need to switch between front and back. Lasers do not move. You need to move your measuring scale. Or you need to measuring scales that are dead on accurate. I am guessing it is easier to move the measuring scale (plywood and 2x4) than to make two that read correctly. Especially if your 2x4 warps. But you could just use a 2x metal square tube and a witness stick to calibrate two scales/projection screens. > What is all this talk about unsafe spring compressors? I have done a > small number of struts on Rabbits with no drama.I can think of six > sets I have done. And then, one day, you may have a set of them let go on you, as I did. I had done it several times before, too, without problems. The last time I did it, I was doing it the same way I have always done it, had the top nut off the strut, and out of the corner of my eye I noticed the compressor shifting, just a split second before the whole thing let go, there was nothing I could do to stop it or get out of the way. It had been sitting on a workbench in front of me, with everything right at crotch level, but miraculously, parts flew in every direction except towards me. It made a really loud WHAP! KA-BOING! noise, and then the sounds of the various parts landing on the driveway, some of them thirty feet away. My neighbor came running, my wife came running, the kids all came running, the noise was that loud. I was white as a ghost, but no harm done. I packed up all the parts, took it all down to a local shop where they have a proper, mounted on the wall, semi-enclosed, no-way-in-hell-this-thing-can-get-away strut compressor, and the mechanic finished the job for me in no time at all. There's a reason that professional shops don't use the rinky-dink strut compressors that you can buy over at NAPA or rent from Auto Zone, and a lesson to learn from that. From now on, considering the small additional cost, the time savings and the safety, I will buy the complete strut packages. They also include the new bearing and bushings, so it's a smart way to go. I'm glad you've never had a similar experience, but don't get smug. You're no better at it than I am. There's a lot of force in one of those springs when it's compressed. You needed to use 'stops' on the springs to stop those compressor bolts from slipping. 4 vise grip pliers work well! Glad you are alright. I do remember them trying to slide or slip on me so I went with the vise grip pliers = no problems for 30 years. I do treat those strut jobs with a lot of respect though!!! I had even bought the professional strut spring compressor, same one as SnapOn, at the flea market but sold it the same day for a tidy little profit! lol It would have been nice to have, but I really did not need it. ;-) Signaturelater, dave (One out of many daves) >> What is all this talk about unsafe spring compressors? I have done a >> small number of struts on Rabbits with no drama.I can think of six [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > no better at it than I am. There's a lot of force in one of those springs > when it's compressed. >> What is all this talk about unsafe spring compressors? I have done a >> small number of struts on Rabbits with no drama.I can think of six [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >You're no better at it than I am. There's a lot of force in one of >those springs when it's compressed. I am not smug. I have not suffered a exploding spring assembly yet. My kit has two sets of bolts and clamps 180 degrees opposed. I do use the little safety clips that come with my compressor kit and I do a little on this side, a little on that side. That hopefully will minimize the chance of grossly unequal tension that would cause the assembly to blow up. The vise grips idea sounds good but I do not own 8 pair to properly secure the compressor kit. There are two reasons that pro shops don't use the rinky dink tools. One is the rinky dink tools are not designed to do 20 sets a day. Two is the rinky dink tools take 1/2 hour to do the task while a pro tool takes 5 minutes. I guess a third benefit of the pro tool is some might have a cage around things but maybe not. To keep those bolt/tools from sliding down the springs, 2 vise grips can work, but 4 are better. <g> The 2 tools will usually only try to slide in one direction. Just be safe with whatever tool that you use! ;-) And yes letting someone else do it is the safest way! Buy the reconditioned and complete ones. lol Signaturelater, dave (One out of many daves) > That hopefully will minimize the > chance of grossly unequal tension that would cause the assembly to > blow up. It's not unequal tension that's the problem, it's the fact that the spring coils are angled, and the hook will slide. Equal tension or not, they want to slide "down" the coil. > I guess a third benefit of the pro tool is some might > have a cage around things but maybe not. Maybe you've never seen the nice ones that shops use -- they're wall-mounted, the entire strut goes into it, the pressure is applied by turning a large wheel or crank, force is applied to all sides equally and at the same time. There's no possibility of slipping, because the parts can't move in relation to one another. Here are a couple: http://www.etoolcart.com/browseproducts/Strut-Spring-Compressor---BRA7400.html http://www.allstates.com/Strut%20compressor.html > I have a 1984 VW Rabbit. I will be changing all 4 struts. I do have > access to a spring compressor. Is one needed to change the struts on > this car or can the strut assembly be changed without compressing the > springs? You will need a spring compressor for the front struts, but a compressor isn't needed for the rear struts. The spring compressor I use consists of a couple of large bolts with hooks on each end. You try to hook as close as possible to the top and bottom of the spring and start tightening the bolts. Be sure to tighten the bolts evenly, just a turn or two at a time, or the bolts can spin around and fly off the spring. I had it happen once, and there's a LOT of tension in those strut springs. My compressor comes with "safety" clamps that are supposed to keep the compressor on the spring, but they don't seem to offer much protection. I still use them though. Be sure to wear safety glasses too, just in case things go flying... I only change struts every few years or so, so I bought a cheap spring compressor from Harbor Freight. I'm not a big fan of HF tools, but it's just a bolt and hook system, and mine has worked fine for many years. Just grease up the bolts nicely before you begin. Removing the front struts will change your wheel alignment, so you'll need to have your car aligned afterwards. I always mark the lower strut bolts so I can reinstall them in their original position and orientation, but the alignment still seems to be different after removing the strut. You "might" need a special tool to remove the top nut on the strut. You can probably get these from the place you buy your strut inserts. I personally just use a pair of vice grips to get the old nut off, since the old strut is being tossed anyway. That assumes, of course, the new strut comes with a new standard nut. And it's always a good idea to replace the upper strut bearings while you have things apart. For that matter, the rubber bushings and bump stops are cheap and are worth replacing too, especially if they are original to the car. Take your time and have fun! Anthony >> I have a 1984 VW Rabbit. I will be changing all 4 struts. I do have >> access to a spring compressor. Is one needed to change the struts on [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > >Anthony Definitely get new bumper rubber front and rear. I agree with the bearing too. I think I have some Monroe spring compressor. It works fine for my occasional use. |
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