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Car Forum / Volkswagen / Water Cooled Volkswagen Cars / July 2007Damaged SOMETHING with backfiring ...
Well, I finally got my 83 GTI up and running (it needed a new hall sender). But it seems that the numerous backfires have taken their toll. I actually noticed this new problem just after one of the last backfires so I'm pretty certain it was the cause. The car now makes a pretty loud clanging noise roughly once per revolution (guessing). At first I thought it might be a hole in the exhaust pipes or something, but that's not the case. The car also has much less power. What should I look for here? Thanks and happy 4th!!!! Fred Is the engine running smoothly? maybe a spark plug is not firing or the wires are crossed and not in the proper firing order. > Well, I finally got my 83 GTI up and running (it needed a new hall > sender). [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thanks and happy 4th!!!! > Fred 1, 4, 3, 2 is the firing order? Have you removed the catalytic onverter? I used to go through them about every 50,000 to 80,000 miles. They would rattle and clog up with chunks falling out. I had to remove the muffler once to shake a chunk out of the muffler. Once the car is running well with no skipping, missing or backfiring you can install a new converter. I actualy might have gotten a longer life then mentioned but missfiring will trash a converter. Explosions in the wrong place can cause premature demise. >Is the engine running smoothly? >maybe a spark plug is not firing or the wires are crossed and not in the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> Thanks and happy 4th!!!! >> Fred While I've no experience with this particular engine, I doubt that's the correct firing order. Every 4 I've ever worked on has been 1-3-4-2. But by all means, look it up rather than relying on Jim's memory or mine. > 1, 4, 3, 2 is the firing order? <snip> JRE > While I've no experience with this particular engine, I doubt that's the > correct firing order. Every 4 I've ever worked on has been 1-3-4-2. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > JRE it's 1,3,4,2 just replaced the distrib. in my 85. md Jim, WATER-cooled and not AIR-cooled! I see what you are more familar with! ;-) I try to remember when redoing plug wires, but there are times when.......... lol  Signaturelater, dave (One out of many daves) > While I've no experience with this particular engine, I doubt that's the > correct firing order. Every 4 I've ever worked on has been 1-3-4-2. But [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > JRE > While I've no experience with this particular engine, I doubt that's the > correct firing order. Every 4 I've ever worked on has been 1-3-4-2. But [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > JRE Note: I should have said "inline 4," and noted that some of them have been VW's. I have also infrequently worked on horizontally opposed 4's but don't recall their firing orders and whether they differ. JRE Well there are also V-4s in some Saabs and then there are engines that are 1/2 of a V8 engine in some 4 cyl Scouts. That is one strange looking engine since the distributor looks like it could fit its larger V8 brother. Probably more strange engines out there too! It is all good JRE and I think you are correct with the firing order of the VW I4 cyl engines! ;-) Next someone will say that the engines can be inline or transverse. lol later, dave (One out of many daves) >> While I've no experience with this particular engine, I doubt that's the >> correct firing order. Every 4 I've ever worked on has been 1-3-4-2. But [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > JRE >Well, I finally got my 83 GTI up and running (it needed a new hall sender). >But it seems that the numerous backfires have taken their toll. I actually [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Thanks and happy 4th!!!! >Fred Backfired and now low power sure sounds like a blocked exhaust, as Jim said. Exciting new data!: Well, I pulled each plug wire with the engine running, and found that the noise comes from cylinder #2. The noise occurrs with each spark (I checked with a timing gun). Where does this leave me? Sounds expensive. In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, Fred Mann wrote: >Exciting new data!: > >Well, I pulled each plug wire with the engine running, and found that the >noise comes from cylinder #2. >The noise occurrs with each spark (I checked with a timing gun). >Where does this leave me? Sounds expensive. When you pulled number 2 plug wire, what changed? The "loud clanging noise" stopped, got louder, or what? > In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, Fred Mann wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > When you pulled number 2 plug wire, what changed? The "loud clanging > noise" stopped, got louder, or what? The noise stopped entirely. Also, I can feel some pulsing air when I put my hand around the back side of the engine, so maybe this noise is some exhaust leak? But then why would I have a loss of power and why would it be isolated to #2 piston? Hmmmmm..... >Also, I can feel some pulsing air when I put my hand around the back side of >the engine, so maybe this noise is some exhaust leak? But then why would I >have a loss of power and why would it be isolated to #2 piston? Hmmmmm..... Check valve clearance. Still check catalytic converter. Always remember Jim can't get the timing order correct unless he opens his Bentley. Oh, remember that problems are not neccessarily binary. It is either this or not. It can be multiple things. Maybe cylinder 2 is the only powerful cylinder so it makes the most noise. That is just a silly comment. I have had exhaust come out everywhere when the converter gets clogged. Everywhere including the tailpipe. Flanges, manifolds, anywhere it can escape. Some of the noises that are made by exhaust leaks are really bizzare. Remember that the gaskets are metal sometimes laminated over an asbestos like core. That means you have reeds like an oboe or a saxaphone. You know how bad those instruments can sound. Exhaust wizzing by those reeds makes some horrendous noises. Well that jogged some of the ole gray matter. Check the brake booster and its line. I seem to remember someone else with a problem similar to the OP's and their booster was bad creating a large vacuum leak and nasty running problems. But now I have forgotten which car that we are talking about! lol '81 Rabbit Conv? I need to have that info put in the Subject line! ;-) >>Also, I can feel some pulsing air when I put my hand around the back side >>of [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > can sound. Exhaust wizzing by those reeds makes some horrendous > noises. Well, I got up under the car with the engine running. There is definitely a leak/hole around the exhaust manifold between the #1 and #2 "tubes". This probably explains all the noise (right?), and since it coincided with the loss of power, it should explain that as well (right?). So this is where I'm going to begin.... Now the question is, is this job doable for a non mechanic? All the bolts are heavily rusted and I can already see myself crying under the car with rust dust in my eyes. >Well, I got up under the car with the engine running. There is definitely a >leak/hole around the exhaust manifold between the #1 and #2 "tubes". This [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >are heavily rusted and I can already see myself crying under the car with >rust dust in my eyes. No, it does not explain the loss of power. The destroyed catalytic converter is the loss of power. The leaky gaskets from 1 and 2 are signs. Has your stomach ever rumbled? It is usually a sign that you need some food. It is not a sign that you need to clean your fingernails. Exhaust leaking out of places it is not supposed to exit has two meanings. One is bad gaskets. Two is restriction in exhaust sytem. No restriction in exhaust system means there is a lower chance of you noticing leaks at manifold. It is not rocket science to inspect your converter. It requires a contortionist though. Remove 6 bolts and inspect both ends. Six point sockets and 6 sided box end wrenches work better than 12 point equipment. Since you have the converter off you can proceed to remove the manifold. That path is full of land mines. Nuts that are a 1/2 mm corroded. Rounded off nuts. Get out your Silikroil and start spraying those nuts for the next two days. Or if you are good with a torch you might get them loose with a torch. I usually have at least a handfull of fresh nuts and maybe even a few fresh studs if I have rotten luck. I would really focus on inspecting the converter first. I would also get a good pair of saftey goggles. Rust in the eyes can be a trip to the doctor. > >Well, I got up under the car with the engine running. There is definitely a > >leak/hole around the exhaust manifold between the #1 and #2 "tubes". This [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > I would also get a good pair of saftey goggles. Rust in the eyes can > be a trip to the doctor. Okay. Thanks Jim (and others)!!! I'll do that first. Should I test the car with the converter off to see if the power has returned, or is that a bad idea? >>>Well, I got up under the car with the engine running. There is definitely > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > Should I test the car with the converter off to see if the power has > returned, or is that a bad idea? It'll be loud as hell unless you have a test pipe, but it's worth a shot. nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel I am with Jim here. The exhaust needs to flow, but if it flows too much (no exhaust) there may be a power loss too at certain rpms. Also I have seen exhaust manifold studs rust or pop and then the manifold starts to leak exhaust = noise. I have even seen cracks in these manifolds. I don't like replacing the exhaust manifolds on the transverse engines still in the vehicle unless armed with rust penetrant and a 2-gas torch. I do live in Chicago and rust is a popular thing here on vehicles. ;-) I keep spare studs, nuts and washers here to replace the old ones. Now if you have done a compression test and/or leak down test on the engine and it passes............then go ahead with your repairs. Replace one component at a time. If you know that you cat. conv is bad, change it. If you know that the exhaust manifold is bad, change it. SAFETY IS NEEDED!!! And good luck! Signaturelater, dave (One out of many daves) "Jim Behning" <jimbehning@doesthisblockpork.mindspring.com> wrote in message > >>Well, I got up under the car with the engine running. There is definitely [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > I would also get a good pair of saftey goggles. Rust in the eyes can > be a trip to the doctor. > Now the question is, is this job doable for a non mechanic? All the bolts > are heavily rusted and I can already see myself crying under the car with > rust dust in my eyes. I'm a non-mechanic and I did my mk2's manifold and a complete exhaust replacement but I did it over several weekends, working no more than 2 hours at a time. I didn't want to stress myself out to get it all done in one weekend. My advice is to put the car up on ramps (or some other VERY stable device) first because you might need to work from both above and below the car. The day before (with the engine cool), soak all nuts/bolts with PB Blaster penetrating lubricant. This helped. However I did snap one stud off (I believe it was defective or cracked already because it did't take much effort on my part...it's not like I forced it. Fortunately it broke off with plenty sticking out and a friend came over and used a stud extractor and had it out in seconds. All the other studs stayed in the car (only the nuts came off) so I didn't bother replacing them with new ones on installation...I kept the old ones in there and just used new nuts although if u have a stud extractor i guess you can extract them all and replace them all. Also now would be the time to think about any type of exhaust upgrade anyway. I'm not familiar with what the mk1s (was this a mk1?) have stock vs. aftermarket but might want to think about things like a dual manifold swap if you have single now, etc. Well, I tested the car with the converter off. It still lacks power. I suppose there could be a fragment of gasket in the manifold, or perhaps the leak around #2 piston manifold connection is causing some turbulence which is disturbing the flow? This seems a little far fetched to me, though. Any ideas on what my next best move should be? I'd hate to replace the manifold only to find that there's a fatal engine problem. Any help/ideas/ruminations would be MUCH appreciated. Fred PS -- I have zero experience working with valves, pistons, etc. The timing belt may have jumped a notch when it backfired throwing your valve timing off. > Well, I tested the car with the converter off. It still lacks power. > I suppose there could be a fragment of gasket in the manifold, or perhaps [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Any help/ideas/ruminations would be MUCH appreciated. > Fred >The timing belt may have jumped a notch when it backfired throwing your >valve timing off. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> Any help/ideas/ruminations would be MUCH appreciated. >> Fred I am with Eric. There is no way a little exhaust leak at the manifold is going to cause significant power issues. Did you do a compression test or a leak-down test on the engine? Engine is probably fine. It will have less power than stock without the exhaust attached. So attaching a GOOD exhaust should bring your power back. Your exhaust manifold leak should be fixed too and it could make a ticking sound. It the leak is not too bad it should not cause a serious power loss. JMHO Signaturelater, dave (One out of many daves) > Well, I tested the car with the converter off. It still lacks power. > I suppose there could be a fragment of gasket in the manifold, or perhaps [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Any help/ideas/ruminations would be MUCH appreciated. > Fred I don't know what a leak-down test is and I haven't done a compression test. Do I need to do both? Also, I can't seem to find the timing marks anywhere. I looked inside the port that is on the bell of the transmission and I didn't see any marks. I rolled the car in high gear and looked in there with a flashlight --- nothin'. Am I looking in the right place? > Did you do a compression test or a leak-down test on the engine? Engine is > probably fine. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Any help/ideas/ruminations would be MUCH appreciated. > > Fred Also, can I use my Matco oil pressure tester guage to do a compression test? >Also, can I use my Matco oil pressure tester guage to do a compression test? no Have you removed the plastic stuff from the bellhousing? You should see a pointer. If you do not see a pointer then you need to remove the plug. I remove the distributor cap. I figure out where the number 1 wire is. I put a socket on the ratchet and I turn the crankshaft pulley until I get the rotor pointing close to number 1. It is possible that someone replaced the flywheel and did not make new timing marks. I also use a screwdriver in number 1 sparkplug hole to watch the piston come up to tdc. I also do this to make sure I am not getting confused by all the marks on the flywheel. This is all covered in the Bentley manual you purchased on Ebay. The manual also has the restof the story about timing belt and camshaft. If you never replaced the timing belt you probably should. Well maybe not if you are asking how to do the job. It is again covered in the cheap Bently manual found on Ebay. Leakdown test is answered with a google search. >I don't know what a leak-down test is and I haven't done a compression test. >Do I need to do both? [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >> > Any help/ideas/ruminations would be MUCH appreciated. >> > Fred when trying to locate a running problem with the engine it is a good idea to test the condition of the engine. My definition A compression test will determine how much the engine will compress air. There are certain procedures to do this, such as disable ign system, remove plugs, open throttle, crank over engine and watch compression gauge during all strokes. The first stroke will be important also, so that needs to be watched. A leak down test, injecting a cylinder with air and watching a gauge, will check how well the engine can hold that compression. Compressed air will leak out via piston rings, valves and possibly elsewhere. It can help determine where that leak is too. Piston needs to be at TDC in firing position. >I don't know what a leak-down test is and I haven't done a compression >test. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > rolled the car in high gear and looked in there with a flashlight --- > nothin'. Am I looking in the right place? I'm going to check timing first since it should be easiest. BUT there is no mark OR pointer. (I removed the plastic plug) I think I have found TDC on piston 1 using the techniques above, but I still don't know how I'm going to locate 6 degrees BTDC. I can put a dab of paint on the flywheel, but still, I don't which way is "before" and which is "after" or how far 6 degrees is. Also, do I need to pull the vacuum advance hose? And as for the exhaust problem ... is it possible that a piece of the gasket is stuck in the manifold? I was just wondering if I might have an exhaust clog somewhere before the catalytic converter .... >I'm going to check timing first since it should be easiest. BUT there is no >mark OR pointer. (I removed the plastic plug) I think I have found TDC on [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >is stuck in the manifold? I was just wondering if I might have an exhaust >clog somewhere before the catalytic converter .... It is covered in the Bentley manual. See page 68. You do not have an exhaust clog. Banish that idea from your mind. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-Rabbit-Scirocco-Jet-NEW-Bentley-Service-Manual _W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34234QQihZ001QQitemZ110147434700QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZW DVW > Also, I can feel some pulsing air when I put my hand around the back side of > the engine, so maybe this noise is some exhaust leak? But then why would I > have a loss of power and why would it be isolated to #2 piston? Hmmmmm..... > > For # 2 cylinder, check compression, plug wire, fuel injector operation. Compression test results: I removed all plugs, put the pedal to the metal and cranked the engine. The results were nearly identical for each cylinder. First crank was roughly 95-100 PSI for each cyl. After about 5 cranks, the guage leveled out around 175-180 PSI. I doubt there was more than 5 PSI difference at any stage across the board. I'm assuming this means my engine is okay. At least by this measure. However, I am still operating with the rear half of the exhaust system removed (catalytic converter and tailpipe disconnected). As is, I have seen some smoke when I rev up the engine. Is this a sign of another problem, or is this to be expected when the converter is removed? PS -- I have not replaced the plugs, but I have replaced cap, rotor and wires. One of the towers on my newish rotor already had some damage -- pretty heavy carbon deposits, and what appear to be a slightly displaced inner metal sleeve Good now you can proceed to other issues like ignition, fuel exhaust, etc since the engine passes the comp test.. Yes replace any known bad component to eliminate that as a possibility. You have identified that #2 noise as an exhaust manifold/gasket leak. Fix that if the tick is annoying or very loud. And you think the loss of power is due to a clogged cat??? There are inexpensive "universal" cats out there or you can temporarily install a test pipe on the exhaust in place of the cat. I vote you install a bolt on cat and be done, unless you are not sure about having a bad cat. ;-) > Compression test results: > I removed all plugs, put the pedal to the metal and cranked the engine. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > carbon deposits, and what appear to be a slightly displaced inner metal > sleeve Well, I finally got my catalytic converter all the way off. I had to cut the screws off with a dremel. Anyway, it's completely hollow. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be like that. My concern is that the backfires blew some of the "guts" of the CC down the pipe and possibly cause a clog there or in the muffler. Any thoughts? Also, when I replaced the hall sender, I used an old one from my other rabbit. I assume it's working fine since the car runs without cutting out now (unlike before I replaced it). As far as I know, hall senders just send a signal to the coil and it either works or it doesn't. That is, it can't send a "weak" signal. But I just wanted to make sure that I didn't overlook something or use an inferior part. Again, any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!!! Fred > Good now you can proceed to other issues like ignition, fuel exhaust, etc > since the engine passes the comp test.. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > carbon deposits, and what appear to be a slightly displaced inner metal > > sleeve > Well, I finally got my catalytic converter all the way off. I had to cut > the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the > muffler. Shouldn't be hollow and yeah the guts could be plugging your mufflers. > Any thoughts? It's probably more than you wanted but could very well be time for a cat-back exhaust. >> Well, I finally got my catalytic converter all the way off. I had to cut >> the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >It's probably more than you wanted but could very well be time for a >cat-back exhaust. Old post to answer too. If it is completely hollow then somone probably gutted it with a screwdriver. On my cars they tended to melt down and chunks would break loose. Those chunks either rattled making a noisy car noisier or the car would not run due to a corked up exhaust. The converter is supposed to look like a honeycomb. But the grid is a lot smaller than the honycomb you buy at the store to chew on. The holes might be .5 mm in size. Maybe it is a bit bigger but it is fairly small. You can hold a good converter up to light and see through it input to output. A failed one meaning one that has clogged or melted down will not pass light or you will see melted parts. Go to any parts store and ask to see a new one. Do not put a new converter on until your car is running perfectly. You will just destroy a converter in short order if the car is running rich, lean, or if the camshaft or ignition timing is significantly off. I prefered to get someone to attach a sniffing probe to the sniffing port to make sure the mixture was correct before installing a new converter. The procedure is in the Bentley. Since the converter is hollow you could just exhaust sniff from the tailpipe. The challenge is finding someone with an old style exhaust analyzer that will let you work for 15 minutes. > >> Well, I finally got my catalytic converter all the way off. I had to cut > >> the [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > is finding someone with an old style exhaust analyzer that will let > you work for 15 minutes. Well, it appears that timing was the main issue, so I adjusted it by trial and error since there are no marks on the wheel or a pointer in the timing hole. Anyway, I'm at about 85% full-power now. The engine still seems to miss a little bit, but it's not regular. I "fixed" the exhaust leak wih JB Weld and it worked fine for my trip downtown. The leak was limited to a small piece of missing gasket. The exhaust is a little smoky (sometimes not visible) and it kinda stinks. I'd guess this could be due to my timing being a little off? Also, would the converter help the smell. I'm certain that the fuel mixture has been adjusted, so it's probably off as well. Is there any way to test for proper amount of vacuum at the vacuum advance? I don't see this particular test in either of the manuals (I have a Haynes for this car and a Bentley for the older 79 Rabbit). If so, what should the reading be? I hooked up a meter and it moved, but it may be beyond the sensitivity of the guage. It read maybe 1 or 2 inches of vacuum when I revved it up. Just for the record, the car did not run as well with the catalytic converter removed. Besides being obviously loud as hell, there was probably an additional 10% power loss. I don't think I imagined it. So I guess a certain amount of backpressure is necessary? Moot point I guess. And here in NC, my car doesn't need to pass emission inspections, so I might put off buying a new converter ... I would like to formally thank everyone for their input. I read everything and I really appreciate it. Danke schoen. >> >> Well, I finally got my catalytic converter all the way off. I had to >cut [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] >I would like to formally thank everyone for their input. I read everything >and I really appreciate it. Danke schoen. Backpressure is a myth. Part of what a good exhaust system does in enhance cylinder scavenging. One cylinders pulse helps pull exhaust out of another cylinder. Second part is anti-reversion. You want the exhaust to go out and stay out. The muffler and converter help reduce the exhausts tendency to go the wrong way. The converter does two things. One is it helps reduce the stink and polution. Second is that it reduces the exhaust noise. A straight test pipe would be quieter than the hollowed out converter. Well that is my guess. Timing marks. There is a zero degree mark there. You just do not know how to read it. Well I can't swear to that but that is what my owners manual says. Here is how you find it. Get your rotor to point close to number 1. Remove spark plug #1. Insert large screwdriver in #1 hole. Slowly turn crankshaft paying attention to screwdriver rising. Keep paying attention to screwdriver and watch it fall. Turn crank the other direction to get it back to top dead center. Look in timing hole which should be 1.25" or so big. If that hole is just 1/2" or 3/4" then you have a plug that needs to be removed. There is a mark on the flywheel. It is not close to the ring gear or the machined flat surface but below that. If you are good at reading the rise and fall of the screwdriver then you will see. You have to find it to confirm camshaft timing. Until you find it you are wasting your time. The manual also mentions making a mark 12 mm to the left if you want for 6 BTDC or 6mm to the right for 3 ATDC. There is a pointer in the timing hole if you removed the plastic plug. It would rather hard and unlikely for someone to chip off the timing pointer. The pointer is just a nib. It is not some huge 1/2" big arrow with a white tip on it. It is smack dab center of the threaded hole on the side closest to the engine block. If you were looking at the machined back edge of the block and you used a square against the machined block and could read the center of the threaded timing hole you should see it. I played a carpenter and tileman in another life. I can usually see the center of something. You need to get someone with a good camera to take a picture. I don't have a Rabbit anymore so I cannot take a picture. Crummy pictures from my Bentley. http://www.brookridgemorgans.com/jim/timing2.jpg http://www.brookridgemorgans.com/jim/timinghole.jpg I test vacuum advance and retard with a small hand help vacuum pump and a timing light. The newer Bently has the specs. Bedtime. > >> >> Well, I finally got my catalytic converter all the way off. I had to > >cut [quoted text clipped - 108 lines] > I test vacuum advance and retard with a small hand help vacuum pump > and a timing light. The newer Bently has the specs. Bedtime. Thanks again Jim! I found the mark AND the arrow. Guess what ... it was there the whole time! The arrow was actually formed into the threads for the plug. I'm assuming that the mark is the timing mark and not 0 degrees. And I set my timing under that assumption (used the idle speed from the sticker under the hood). It seems to run even better, and I'm certainly approaching 100% power, if I'm not already there. BUT there is still a fair amount of stink, and some smoke is visible especially after I rev the engine up to high rpms. Unless the backfiring really did hollow out the converter, something else must still be wrong. I put in a new air filter for the hell of it -- no change. I *was* assuming that it was the fuel mixture, but it seems to stink throughout the entire useable range of the mixture settings. I remember setting the mixture with an emissions sniffer on the tailpipe a few years ago, and I got the best readings on the lean side of "smooth" running. So that's where it is right now. Can I only adjust the mixture with an emissions tester hooked up? Also, I was going to buy this manual which only goes to 1983 -- the year of my rabbit in question: http://cgi.ebay.com/RABBIT-SCIROCCO-JETTA-Service-Manuel-1980-83-BENTLEY_W0QQite mZ230154041777QQihZ013QQcategoryZ378QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem Is there any reason to pony up the extra $40 for the newer manual that covers 1984? > Also, I was going to buy this manual which only goes to 1983 -- the year > of > my rabbit in question: > http://cgi.ebay.com/RABBIT-SCIROCCO-JETTA-Service-Manuel-1980-83-BENTLEY_W0QQite mZ230154041777QQihZ013QQcategoryZ378QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem > Is there any reason to pony up the extra $40 for the newer manual that > covers 1984? nah - 1984 was a carryover year. wouldn't be anything majorly different in that. >> Also, I was going to buy this manual which only goes to 1983 -- the year >> of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >nah - 1984 was a carryover year. wouldn't be anything majorly different in >that. I am with Matt. There might be some minor thing with an 84. >> >"Jim Behning" <jimbehning@doesthisblockpork.mindspring.com> wrote in >message [quoted text clipped - 145 lines] >Is there any reason to pony up the extra $40 for the newer manual that >covers 1984? I used a dwell meter to check the fuel mix on my 84. Someone has the procedure. My dwell meterdoes not have a 4 cylinder setting. I cannot recall if that required a bit of math including the number 2. Or maybe that was setting dwell on old points. I have done a number of timing belts. I bet that I was off one tooth on a third of them. My new car specifies that you are to turn the engine two full revolutions to make sure you have the belt on correctly. If I had done that on the older cars I would have been at 100%. Engine will idle fairly well with one tooth off but you will know that the timing is off even if the ignition timing is correct. Power and torque are off enough to easily feel. |
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