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Car Forum / Volkswagen / Water Cooled Volkswagen Cars / November 2007

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tough to start 91 turbo diesel jetta

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milesb@connect.ab.ca - 08 Nov 2007 22:17 GMT
it will start but only after tuning off for about 5 minutes. it will
start to chug and then starts. then it will start right away
everytime. leave it over night and its back to running the starter for
over 4-5 minutes until it catches.
what up with this
Lynn McGuire - 08 Nov 2007 23:11 GMT
> it will start but only after tuning off for about 5 minutes. it will
> start to chug and then starts. then it will start right away
> everytime. leave it over night and its back to running the starter for
> over 4-5 minutes until it catches.
> what up with this

Need new glow plugs or else the glow plug fuse is blown.

Lynn
Joseph Meehan - 09 Nov 2007 00:52 GMT
I am not sure exactly what you are saying, but it sounds like either a
leak in a fuel line allowing it to drain back into the tank, or it it only
happens when cold (like below freezing - warmer if the compression is down)
then it may be a glow plug issue.  If that is it, remember that glow plugs
can be checked without removing them and they don't have a fixed live.  If
one is out that's all you should try and replace.  Don't try to replace a
glow plug unless you know it is bad (resistance check will confirm that).
Trying to replace them can create a much larger problem if the break off
half way out for example.  They are not like spark plugs that you routinely
replace.

> it will start but only after tuning off for about 5 minutes. it will
> start to chug and then starts. then it will start right away
> everytime. leave it over night and its back to running the starter for
> over 4-5 minutes until it catches.
> what up with this

Signature

Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

dave AKA vwdoc1 - 09 Nov 2007 00:56 GMT
My theories...........
Possibly the little electric shut off valve in the Injection Pump is not
fully sealing so when the engine is off air gets into the fuel lines.  Then
the pump has to push out the air and suck up the fuel from the tank.
Look for bubbles in the lines after you shut off the engine or when you
first get it started.

Or it could just be the glow plugs or its fuse or the temperature sensor or
the relay.  :-)

Gotta test things with a 12 volt probe or meter!
Signature

later,
dave
(One out of many daves)

> it will start but only after tuning off for about 5 minutes. it will
> start to chug and then starts. then it will start right away
> everytime. leave it over night and its back to running the starter for
> over 4-5 minutes until it catches.
> what up with this
BryanZ - 15 Nov 2007 20:11 GMT
Doctor Dave,

I am not seeing any bubbles in the fuel lines and the glow plug fuse is
intact.  I would like to check the other components you suggeested.  Where is
the temp sensor and relay located?  Are there any test that I can conduct to
check these components?  

Thanks in advance,

Bryan

>My theories...........
>Possibly the little electric shut off valve in the Injection Pump is not
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>> over 4-5 minutes until it catches.
>> what up with this
dave AKA vwdoc1 - 17 Nov 2007 01:09 GMT
Well I would think that if the temperature sensor was defective the Glow
Plug Light would not light for over 10 seconds with a cold engine.

If you don't see any bubbles in the fuel lines then I think it is
electrical.
Check for power at the glow plugs when you first turn the ign switch on and
the GP Light comes on.
This will check the sensor, the glow plug fuse and relay.
If power then I would suspect the glow plugs are faulty.
If no power then suspect that fuse and you can bypass it temporarily or just
test the two sides of the fuse with the glow plug light on.  You should get
12 volts + on both sides of the fuse with the glow plug light on.  Sometimes
the fuse looks intact until you remove one of its securing screws and then
it falls apart.  :-)

There are some tests you can do to see if ALL of the glow plugs are working
since if you measure the ohms each one makes up about 1/4 of the total.
I think you can remove the power lead going to the glow plugs at the fuse.
Test it with your Ohm meter
I just usually remove the power rail (if that is what it is called) from the
#4 and maybe #3 glow plug and test them individually and test #1 and #2
while they are still connected to that rail.

JMHO
Signature

later,
dave
(One out of many daves)

> Doctor Dave,
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>>> over 4-5 minutes until it catches.
>>> what up with this
news.wildblue.net - 09 Nov 2007 16:06 GMT
test the glow plugs first.

> it will start but only after tuning off for about 5 minutes. it will
> start to chug and then starts. then it will start right away
> everytime. leave it over night and its back to running the starter for
> over 4-5 minutes until it catches.
> what up with this
Corrado Daddy - 10 Nov 2007 14:25 GMT
On Nov 8, 5:17 pm, mil...@connect.ab.ca wrote:
> it will start but only after tuning off for about 5 minutes. it will
> start to chug and then starts. then it will start right away
> everytime. leave it over night and its back to running the starter for
> over 4-5 minutes until it catches.
> what up with this

If you have a lot of miles on the engine, you may have a worn seal on
the injection pump shaft.  It keeps air out of the pump.  The seal can
be replaced but it is labor intensive since you have to pull the
pump.  Straight forward after that.  If you have over 150,000 miles on
it, consider also changing the water pump, new timing belt, and the
oil seals on the belt end of the engine block since they are due and
you have it apart.  You will be good for another 150K miles then!

Regarding glow plugs, the most common failure is a cracked 50Amp glow
plug fuse.  They crack right through the 'A' stamped in the fuse!  You
can't see it until you remove the fuse and it falls out in 2 pieces.
I fixed mine with a section of lamp cord stripped and terminals
crimped at each end.  Just long enough to connect to the fuse block
terminals and after the first terminal was crimped on, pull the
insulation off and then crimp on the second.  12 ga. cord.  Blows a
little slower than stock but good enough for a 16 year old car.

81 Rabbit Diesel LS  300,000 miles - sold :(
86 Jetta TD  265,000 miles - Used body parts on 88 Jetta Carat, kept
diesel drive train for another, future, project.
89 Westfalia 2.3L Vortex Motor  140,000 miles on body
91 Jetta ECOdiesel 135,000 miles
93 Corrado SLC VR6 105,000 miles
05.5 MkV Jetta TDI with DSG
none2u - 13 Nov 2007 04:02 GMT
> On Nov 8, 5:17 pm, mil...@connect.ab.ca wrote:
>> it will start but only after tuning off for about 5 minutes. it will
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>> Yea it sounds like glow plugs. Or the big fuse. It acts like they are
>> completely dead. Cold soak it overnight and you need them glow plugs.
milesb@connect.ab.ca - 21 Nov 2007 17:16 GMT
> On Nov 8, 5:17 pm, mil...@connect.ab.ca wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> 93 Corrado SLC VR6 105,000 miles
> 05.5 MkV Jetta TDI with DSG

hi, thank you all for you input. it turns out that cylinder number
three is down to 200lbs on a compression test. tech said that the
starter can not turn it over fast enough to start it. its either a
burnt valve or the rings. its parked, too expensive to fix.
thanks again
 
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