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Car Forum / Volkswagen / Water Cooled Volkswagen Cars / May 20082005 Jetta oil consumption
Let me preface this with the statement that there are no oil leaks. The car is parked in a garage with a painted garage floor 23.5 hours every day, and there isn't a drop of oil on the floor. A dealer inspection also indicated this was oil consumption and not an oil leak. My wife has a 2005 (new body style) Jetta with the 2.5L I5 engine. She has a little over 20K miles at this point. We forgot her 3rd (15K miles) oil change by 4K miles and when we took it in, oil wasn't registering on the dipstick and she was 4 quarts low according to the dealer. I was quite surprised to see oil consumption like that for full synthetic oil and a fairly new car. My 100K+ truck may consume 1/2 quart over 10K miles. The dealer we took it to, MAG - Midwestern Auto Group, seemed to imply we had possibly destroyed the engine and that if it continued to have problems, VW would not honor the warranty. Needless to say they did not get on our good side by those types of comments. So they changed the oil and we drove off with the understanding that we would bring it back after 1000 or so miles for a checkup on oil consumption. When my wife took it back this week, they said she had lost 1/2 quart of oil over her 1000 miles. The dealer then said this was NORMAL! They said 1 quart every 2K miles is what they expect to see in oil consumption. Maybe I'm missing something, but I expect roughly no oil consumption after 1000 miles on a car with 20K miles. Additionally, synthetic oil manufactures are now recommending 10K and 15K mile oil changes unlike VW's 5K mile recommendation. So I wanted to get the r.a.m.vw.w group's thought on if this is normal or not. Should it consumer 1 quart every 2K miles? Did going over 4K miles on an oil change destroy the engine? Regards, -- Mike Brancato In rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled, Mike Brancato wrote: >When my wife took it back this week, they said she had lost 1/2 quart of >oil over her 1000 miles. The dealer then said this was NORMAL! They [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >synthetic oil manufactures are now recommending 10K and 15K mile oil >changes unlike VW's 5K mile recommendation. I think you should check your oil level yourself, even after you just got the oil changed. I once got my oil changed at a quick lube place. I drove half a block, and checked the oil. I then drove back to have them add a quart or so. The oil filter may not have been filled up when checked initially. The oil may not have had time to drain back into the sump for the second check. This is not addressing your question tho. Most manufactures would consider that normal or acceptable oil consumption for a modern car. Not seeing any drips does not mean it may not be leaking. It may mean it is just leaking when it is under pressure, while you are driving. You should check the oil every time you get fuel. Let me repeat that, check oil every time you get fuel. Even if you have a car that is not using oil. Yes, I agree that the amount of oil that manufactures consider normal, I consider excessive, but we are not going to win this one. No VW is not unique nor do all VW's use oil. I have 60,000 miles on my 2002 VW. I change oil every 10,000 miles and I have yet to see more than maybe a cup of oil loss in those 10,000 miles. Never even half quart low.  SignatureJoseph Meehan Dia 's Muire duit > Let me preface this with the statement that there are no oil leaks. The > car is parked in a garage with a painted garage floor 23.5 hours every [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > -- > Mike Brancato I will comment on this once I do some thinking and read other replies. But bottom line the owner is responsible for checking the basics such as oil, tire pressure, etc. It's in the owners manual. > Let me preface this with the statement that there are no oil leaks. The > car is parked in a garage with a painted garage floor 23.5 hours every [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > -- > Mike Brancato > Let me preface this with the statement that there are no oil leaks. The > car is parked in a garage with a painted garage floor 23.5 hours every [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Regards, Yes 1qt every 2000 miles is normal for a German engine. It has to with the harden rings they use. Thats why most German manufactures use a 40 weight oil vs a 30 to deal with the excessive heat generated by the harden rings. If you own a German car you need to check the oil every week. Or a the bear min every time you fill up,and on road trips EVERY fill up. Always keep a qt of whatever is in your oil pan in the cubby hole in your spar tire. I always wonder where people get their facts from? I also have heard that Xw-40 weight oil does not disappear as quickly, but only stories. I thought thinner oil, to increase mpgs, just got by the rings and other areas easier than heavier weight oil and thus disappeared quicker. Had a friend that bought a '03 Golf 2.0 with 12K miles on it, and she got rid of it due to oil disappearing every few hundred miles. She now has an '05 Golf 2.0 with a less thirsty engine. No one really wants to fill up the oil and check the gas! 8^) snip >> Mike Brancato > Yes 1qt every 2000 miles is normal for a German engine. It has to with the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > keep a qt of whatever is in your oil pan in the cubby hole in your spar > tire. > I always wonder where people get their facts from? > I also have heard that Xw-40 weight oil does not disappear as quickly, but [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> keep a qt of whatever is in your oil pan in the cubby hole in your spar >> tire. Whats your point dave the 03 and 05 both had the same motor the AZG coded engine. xw-30 or xw-40 does not mean thicker or thiner. It has to do with viscosity, flash point, vaporisation. Take Castrol Syntec 0w-30 aka German castrol is thicker that Mobil 1 0w-40. go figure. SignatureJoseph Meehan Dia 's Muire duit > ... xw-30 or xw-40 does not mean thicker or thiner. It has to do with > viscosity, flash point, vaporisation. Take Castrol Syntec 0w-30 aka German > castrol is thicker that Mobil 1 0w-40. go figure. Take a look at: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question164.htm No actually. The 2005 would have a BEV code engine. >> I always wonder where people get their facts from? >> I also have heard that Xw-40 weight oil does not disappear as quickly, [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > viscosity, flash point, vaporisation. Take Castrol Syntec 0w-30 aka German > castrol is thicker that Mobil 1 0w-40. go figure. >> I always wonder where people get their facts from? >> I also have heard that Xw-40 weight oil does not disappear as quickly, [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > viscosity, flash point, vaporisation. Take Castrol Syntec 0w-30 aka German > castrol is thicker that Mobil 1 0w-40. go figure. Observations and I have no written facts. That is why I asked about facts! ;-) I do not think that 1 quart per 2000 miles is normal! A lot of factors can come into play with engines. Break-in, abuse, type of driving, brand and type of oil, etc. Excessive heat = needing 40 weight oil? I see that the turbos need the "better" oil, but the NA 2.0 engine....hmmm You can have the same year engine but one might consume more oil than the other engine. Sometimes it could come from a bad break-in period or other variables that cause "excessive" oil consumption. I have heard about different types of engine break-ins and even warm-ups. The older Porsche 911 engines require you to start up the engine and keep the rpms up quite a bit until it warms up some. Now that scares me! lol Other engines might have you not touch the gas pedal when you start it. Some people break-in their engines very hard (after cam break-in if needed) and others break-in their engines gingerly. I feel that a VW/Audi engine is not truly broken-in until AFTER 100,000 miles. Then they start running better, but that is just my observation. <g> Supposedly with the different piston rings and cylinder honing procedures the engines are basically already broken in. So does VW still recommend having the first oil change done at 7,500 miles? Is this their special break-in oil with possibly more zinc in it? I have an '83 GTi engine that uses very little oil and has 240K miles on it. I do use the Mobil 1 15w-40 synthetic oil in it though, for almost all of the past 17 years that I have owned it in Chicago. I have seen other same year engines blowing blue smoke out of their tailpipes years ago and their cars are junked now. :-( So you are saying that different brands can have incorrect labelling of their oil? "the second number indicates the viscosity at operating temperature" "The higher the value, the more viscous the fluid." http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question164.htm (thanks Joseph) Again I have "heard" that some brands fair better in some engines than other brands. Pennsoil might do better in a BMW engine than Castrol or Valvoline oils. Just my observations! ;-) I am a Factory VW Tech by trade so I can confirm that those oil consumption figures are in fact the VW spec. Yes its garbage but thats the way it is. I worked for Mercedes for 7 years & their spec was 1L/1000km. I had to give my head a shake the first time I heard that. >>> I always wonder where people get their facts from? >>> I also have heard that Xw-40 weight oil does not disappear as quickly, [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > Just my observations! ;-) Thanks zc, I remember the problems that WC VW engines had in the late 70's with oil consumption. AFAIK That was mainly due to the oil seals for the valve stem guides. Better materials were used (silicone or semi-silicone) and retrofitted thereby reducing the 1 quart per 500 miles down to something more respectible. I think that the dealers were charging $120US to do this job of replacing the seals decades ago. Could it be the oil in the US causing the oil consumption problems? Now if "AMSOIL" can claim a "decent" reduction in oil consumption I might become one of their salespersons. lol Now did the engineers change the oil consumption specifications to "fit" their engines especially the later ones? 8^) Got any official papers that you can share with us? Or if you share that info with us then you would have to silence us? <g> Now as I understand it, if the engine consumes a little more than 1 quart per 1,000 miles then the engine gets new rings and the cylinders get honed or excuse me "deglazed"? The designated reason is probably that the engine was not properly broken in. 8^o I noticed that the rings on my '97 1.8t engine don't have a lot of tension that would hold them to the cylinder walls tightly. Also the cylinder walls are almost polished unlike days of old with cast iron rings and more coarsely honed cylinder walls. lots of complaints http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/vw_oil.html http://www.myvwlemon.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000078.html switching to the 10W-40 oil solved this person's problem http://autorepair.about.com/library/a/1i/bl659i.htm In an ideal situation there will be no oil consumption, or maybe just a tiny bit. BUT since you might need to add oil from time to time, just purchase 1-2 extra quarts and check it regularly. ;-) Signaturelater, dave (One out of many daves) >I am a Factory VW Tech by trade so I can confirm that those oil consumption >figures are in fact the VW spec. Yes its garbage but thats the way it is. I [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] >> >> Just my observations! ;-) The Ring job is what was done on the early 2.0L AEG motors for their known oil consumption issues. This was caused by bad oil rings. I have seen VERY few issues with the new engines so I would say whatever is wrong with them is prob caused by lack of maintenance or beeting the piss out of them when new. The only engines I have seen a regular complaint of oil consumption is the new 2.0LT. Usually they are young guys with GTI's complaining so odds are they have been beating on them. One time I had a Passat & found that the oil seal in the turbo was leaking allowing oil to be burned by the motor. Sorry no official paperwork. Never bothered to print it off cause I already know the spec. > Thanks zc, > I remember the problems that WC VW engines had in the late 70's with oil [quoted text clipped - 111 lines] >>> >>> Just my observations! ;-) Thanks for the info zc! ;-) So how should new owners break in their engines to reduce the possibilities of problems like this? I just had someone call me up inquiring about purchasing a "new" 2007 NB conv limited edition with only 24 miles on it and she plans on keeping it for many many years to come. Signaturelater, dave (One out of many daves) > The Ring job is what was done on the early 2.0L AEG motors for their known > oil consumption issues. This was caused by bad oil rings. I have seen VERY [quoted text clipped - 127 lines] >>>> >>>> Just my observations! ;-) Don't do the first oil change until 5000 miles to give the rings a chance to seal. I just had someone call me up inquiring about purchasing a "new" 2007 NB > conv limited edition with only 24 miles on it and she plans on keeping it > for many many years to come. Thanks Lost In Space. I knew you were lurking around here somewhere! lol > Don't do the first oil change until 5000 miles to give the rings a chance > to seal. > > I just had someone call me up inquiring about purchasing a "new" 2007 NB >> conv limited edition with only 24 miles on it and she plans on keeping it >> for many many years to come. Yeah its basic common sense stuff. Go easy on the motor for the first 1000kms. Try to keep it under 4000RPM. IMO the first 16K are the most important. As said earlier, don't change the oil untill at least 5000km as there is a special "Break In" oil added by the factory to help seat the rings. Then do oil changes regularly with quality oil. Simple stuff. > Don't do the first oil change until 5000 miles to give the rings a chance > to seal. > > I just had someone call me up inquiring about purchasing a "new" 2007 NB >> conv limited edition with only 24 miles on it and she plans on keeping it >> for many many years to come. sounds like some more good advice. thanks > Yeah its basic common sense stuff. Go easy on the motor for the first > 1000kms. Try to keep it under 4000RPM. IMO the first 16K are the most [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>> conv limited edition with only 24 miles on it and she plans on keeping >>> it for many many years to come. > Yeah its basic common sense stuff. Go easy on the motor for the first > 1000kms. Try to keep it under 4000RPM. IMO the first 16K are the most > important. As said earlier, don't change the oil untill at least 5000km as > there is a special "Break In" oil added by the factory to help seat the > rings. Then do oil changes regularly with quality oil. Plus for a few thousand do modest acceleration bursts, which helps the rings seat in. However no constant high speed highway driving during that time, else the rings may overheat and eventually pass too much oil. I've then added Duralube every 50Kkms and have experienced better engine life than those who haven't. One of my high school buddys turned me on to Mobil 1 years ago. Mabe 25 years ago, I don't know. Anyway he has an Audi now that he switched from Mobile 1 to some Amsoil product and claimed reduced oil consumption. Ever notice how an engine that burns huge blue clouds on dino oil does not on synthetic? Ever notice have 911s burn plenty of oil at the road race track? Ever notice how your Isuzu flatbed truck burns oil like crazy when you are drive 80-90 mph but does not seem to burn any oil when driving around town? Those darn Chevy engines. >Thanks zc, >I remember the problems that WC VW engines had in the late 70's with oil [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >BUT since you might need to add oil from time to time, just purchase 1-2 >extra quarts and check it regularly. ;-) > I remember the problems that WC VW engines had in the late 70's with oil > consumption. AFAIK That was mainly due to the oil seals for the valve stem > guides. Better materials were used (silicone or semi-silicone) and > retrofitted thereby reducing the 1 quart per 500 miles down to something > more respectible. I think that the dealers were charging $120US to do this > job of replacing the seals decades ago. That's correct. We had the oil leaking past the valve seal problem with a '80 Chrysler Horizon that used the VW engine. At that time there was a current class action suit against VW on this problem and our Chrysler dealer kindly fixed it for parts cost at 4 yrs of age. Sorry I missed the begining of this post. Is this a new or old body style jetta??? If its a new 2.0lT jetta I have seen plenty with oil consumption issues. Normally they were with young guys who didn't let them break in properly. I have also found a few turbos leaking oil into the engine. >> I remember the problems that WC VW engines had in the late 70's with oil >> consumption. AFAIK That was mainly due to the oil seals for the valve [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > problem and our Chrysler dealer kindly fixed it for parts cost at 4 yrs > of age. "Yes 1qt every 2000 miles is normal for a German engine." Let me quickly comment - b__s___t! My 97 Jetta has 165,000 miles on the engine and it uses no oil between changes. None of my cars in the last 45 years used more than 1/2 quart between oil changes. That includes two other VW's and a 356 Porsche. Normal............ > "Yes 1qt every 2000 miles is normal for a German engine." > Let me quickly comment - b__s___t! My 97 Jetta has 165,000 miles on the > engine and it uses no oil between changes. None of my cars in the last 45 > years used more than 1/2 quart between oil changes. That includes two other > VW's and a 356 Porsche. Normal............ My 2000 BMW 323i that I traded off last June never used a drop of oil, and went 24,000 km between oil changes per BMW! AFAIK that is a typical German engine. My A5 Jetta Diesel TDI is built in Mexico, and I have no idea of the country of origin of its engine. So far it has not used any oil in the first 16,000 km. Stuart H. Alberta, Canada SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Let me preface this with the statement that there are no oil leaks. The > car is parked in a garage with a painted garage floor 23.5 hours every > day, and there isn't a drop of oil on the floor. A dealer inspection > also indicated this was oil consumption and not an oil leak. I once had my Chrysler suddenly start "burning" oil after a Mr. Lube oil change. Normal consumption of 1L per 9Kkms, increased to 1L per 3Kkms. A bit on investigation found that the oil drain nut was only finger tight. There was no oil dripping on my garage floor, but it dripped a bit while driving as one could see a tracers of oil that had blown behind the engine. No more Mr. Lube. I suggest you watch the situation yourself very closely. Running on no oil doesn't appear to have destroyed your engine, if it sounds and runs OK, but you may have to live with more oil consumption than normal. |
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