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Car Forum / Volkswagen / Water Cooled Volkswagen Cars / May 2008

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Mystery car

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PatAL7L - 05 May 2008 03:09 GMT
We've been working for a couple of months off and on on a 1987 Jetta
GL 1.8 8-valve gas that refuses to run. I inherited in from a guy who
told me he drove it for a while and then developed a head gasket leak,
so he took the head off and had it surfaced, reinstalled it, and was
never able to get the car started again.

I thought it was going to be a simple problem, because the guy had
really screwed up the engine timing. The cam gear has a dot on both
sides, and he had lined up the outside dot with the front of the valve
cover, and then had changed all the plug wires around to try to
correct for being 180 degrees out. So, the first order of business was
to line everything up right and reinstall the timing belt. The two
marks on the harmonic balancer and the intermediate sprocket that
drives the distributor are now correctly lined up with one another,
and the valves are set to TDC on number 1 with the inside alignment
dot (the one on the tooth, not the one on the valley) lined up with
the top corner of the valve cover. The distributor is now pointing to
the engine block, and the plugs are correctly lined up 1-3-4-2.

Along the way, we discovered that the fuel pump relay was shot and the
fuel filter was clogged, so we jumpered around the relay, and replaced
the fuel filter. We're now getting a good conical spray of gasoline
from all four injectors.

It still wouldn't start, so we tested compression and discovered that
the #1 cylinder was down to 50 pounds, and #4 was sitting at 75
pounds. We took the pistons out, found all the top rings stuck and all
the rings on #1 an #4 stuck.  We cleaned everything up, re-ringed
them, cleaned up the badly carboned-up cylinders, and reinstalled the
pistons with new con rod bearings. While the top was off the engine, I
replaced the badly shot o-rings and shrouds on the injectors and put
in new plugs, properly gapped.

At 11 p.m. last Friday night, after a long evening of putting
everything back together, we attempted to start the car. We filled it
with oil and coolant, hooked up the battery, got in, and twisted the
key.  Exactly the same result as we had before.  It cranks perfectly,
starts backfiring as soon as there's enough gas to do so, and
absolutely refuses to run.

With all the work we've done on the engine, I'm convinced that's not
the problem any more, but that it's gotta be something hanging off the
engine. So, what? Hall sender? Computer? I don't know what to try
next, although pushing it off a cliff is beginning to look pretty
good.
tacurong - 05 May 2008 06:34 GMT
You are close with the timing .  you must use the dot on the inside of the
gear  on the cam shaft.    had  a buddy  with a 94 golf   with the same
issue with the timing   after 5 minutes of taking the cam belt off and re
set the timing  it ran good    ....good luck

> We've been working for a couple of months off and on on a 1987 Jetta
> GL 1.8 8-valve gas that refuses to run. I inherited in from a guy who
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> next, although pushing it off a cliff is beginning to look pretty
> good.
SFC - 05 May 2008 11:39 GMT
Seems a bad ignition. Check if the hall sensor is pulsing +12v - 0v
+12v..while cranking.
You can also use a timing light to see if you've a spark on each cyl. Did
you set the plugs wires in the right order? #1 is on the distrb. side.

SFC

> You are close with the timing .  you must use the dot on the inside of the
> gear  on the cam shaft.    had  a buddy  with a 94 golf   with the same
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>> next, although pushing it off a cliff is beginning to look pretty
>> good.
racertod@racertodd.com - 06 May 2008 07:21 GMT
I noticed this statement:
>The two marks on the harmonic balancer and the intermediate sprocket that
> drives the distributor are now correctly lined up with one another,
> and the valves are set to TDC on number 1 with the inside alignment
> dot (the one on the tooth, not the one on the valley) lined up with
> the top corner of the valve cover. The distributor is now pointing to
> the engine block, and the plugs are correctly lined up 1-3-4-2.

    The distributor body has a mark on it that shows where the
terminal for plug #1 will be when the cap is installed.  The rotor
should be pointing to that mark.  If it is, the ignition timing will
be right around TDC, which is close enough for the engine to fire.
    It isn't critical for the mark on the intermediate to be lined
up with the mark on the crank pulley/harmonic balancer.  It can be bit
either way.  What determines if the timing is close is the relative
position of the rotor and the mark on the distributor body.
    You could, in fact, have the intermediate shaft in any
position - as long at the rotor lines up with the mark on the
distributor body your timing will be near TDC.  

Todd
dave AKA vwdoc1 - 07 May 2008 03:12 GMT
and check #1 piston to see if it is at TDC by removing the spark plug.
Using a straw move the crank one way and then the other to make sure that
the straw is at its highest point.

>I noticed this statement:
>>The two marks on the harmonic balancer and the intermediate sprocket that
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Todd
Dioclese - 05 May 2008 21:23 GMT
> We've been working for a couple of months off and on on a 1987 Jetta
> GL 1.8 8-valve gas that refuses to run. I inherited in from a guy who
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> next, although pushing it off a cliff is beginning to look pretty
> good.

The early "boxes" for controlling fuel delivery couldn't actually be termed
as a computer.  They were simple bridge networks.  Hall sendng unit either
works or doesn't, no inbetween.

Ignition timing, or mechanical timing can both produce backfiring.

Any vehicle that has stood unused for quite some time stands a problem of
rust intrusion from the tank.  A closed fuel system in particular, meaning
the gas is returned to the tank if not all used.
Signature

Dave

Parkinson's disease, not easy to define.
Much less cure.

NiK - 13 May 2008 20:51 GMT
Don't forget the cam gear itself may not be timed to the cam properly.
Ensure the cam lobes on #1 coincide with your crank timing. If it backfires,
you have ignition. Sounds like valve timing is out.
> We've been working for a couple of months off and on on a 1987 Jetta
> GL 1.8 8-valve gas that refuses to run. I inherited in from a guy who
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> next, although pushing it off a cliff is beginning to look pretty
> good.
 
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