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Car Forum / Volkswagen / Water Cooled Volkswagen Cars / April 2009'90 Golf. Re-installed distributor, engine won't start. Help.
Hi, I've searched the discussions for VW and for autos in general with no luck. Vehicle is a '90 Golf 8 valve gas engine. When doing a visual inspection of the inside of the distributor cap and rotor, one of the spring clips that holds the distributor cap on broke off. It was pretty corroded to begin with. I found a replacement clip at the junk yard. I used a screw driver and small hammer to tap the remains of the old spring clip out of the groove that runs around the body of the distributor. I tapped in the replacement clip. I had turned the engine by hand before hand to point the rotor to the mark on the distributor body. So when replacing, I llined up the rotor to the mark and dropped the distirbutor into the engine. After putting the cap back on (no wires removed), I tried starting. No firing. So I went back to basics, hand cranked the engine until cylinder #1 was at its highest point, checked the timing mark was at TDC, and that the rotor was pointing to the mark on the distributor body. All is well. But the engine still won't start. Other things I checked. - yes, the rotor is in the distributor and seated on the key - timing light while I cranked. No flashing - pulled #1 spark plug out, touched the threads to ground and had someone crank the engine. No indication ofspark. - timing light on the wire from the ignition coil. No indication of spark. - made sure the connector on the side of the distirbutor was seated properly - Rotated the distributor to various positions and re-tried starting Could I have damaged something inside tapping on the distributor body? The tapping would be like the force to drive in a small finishing nail (that's the hammer I used, smaller than a finishing nail hammer). What am I overlooking? Shoud the engine fire, even roughly, if I'm way off the timing? And just before a long weekend drive too! Thanks. > Hi, > I've searched the discussions for VW and for autos in general with [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > And just before a long weekend drive too! > Thanks. if you're way off on the timing, you'd still have spark. you need to figure out why you don't have spark and then work on the timing. Is the tach indicating while you're turning the engine over? nate  Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > if you're way off on the timing, you'd still have spark. you need to > figure out why you don't have spark and then work on the timing. Is the > tach indicating while you're turning the engine over? > nate Thanks Nate, I'm suspecting the Hall Sender. I've had instances where the engine falters under acceleration, just for a partial second. I initially suspected a vacuum leak, but have checked those. I had faltering (and stalling) on an '85 caused by a faulty Hall Sender. I picked up a replacement Hall Sender but now, I can't get the trigger wheel off. Bentley mentions taking a snap ring off, but I don't see one. But the trigger wheel is not budging off the distributor shaft. I've applied liquid wrench and contrary to Bentley that says to not strike the distributor shaft, I've tried tapping on the shaft while holding the wheel up with a screw driver. What a nightmare the simple distributor cap clip has become. First make sure that when you pulled the connector off you did not accidently pull the wires up inside of the plug. Then check the Hall Sensor wiring inside of the distributor. Next since you have a '90 with Digifant you need to remove the entire shaft out of the distributor body similar to the 16v distributors http://vwdoc1.tripod.com/16VDistSealReplace.html to replace the Hall Sensor if you find it at fault. BUT since the distributor is out of the engine then replug it, turn the ign on, hold the center wire out of the ign coil close to ground and spin the distributor shaft. Watch for sparks near that loose center wire! IIRC You can also check the wiring when you test the it without the distributor. It will spark while you test the distributor plug/wiring. BTW I am not fond of those clips and try to oil them up and work them free, when I see them beginning to get stiff! :-) Signaturelater, (One out of many daves) On Apr 9, 6:08 pm, Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote: > if you're way off on the timing, you'd still have spark. you need to > figure out why you don't have spark and then work on the timing. Is the > tach indicating while you're turning the engine over? > nate Thanks Nate, I'm suspecting the Hall Sender. I've had instances where the engine falters under acceleration, just for a partial second. I initially suspected a vacuum leak, but have checked those. I had faltering (and stalling) on an '85 caused by a faulty Hall Sender. I picked up a replacement Hall Sender but now, I can't get the trigger wheel off. Bentley mentions taking a snap ring off, but I don't see one. But the trigger wheel is not budging off the distributor shaft. I've applied liquid wrench and contrary to Bentley that says to not strike the distributor shaft, I've tried tapping on the shaft while holding the wheel up with a screw driver. What a nightmare the simple distributor cap clip has become. My 84 stranded me twice. Actually died on highway and a jiggle of the connector got me running again. I cleaned the connector on the distributor and the wiring harness with TarnX, rinsed with water, blew dry with air compressor nozzle, greased and it never died again. Of course cleanup gets you nowhere if your actual wires are goofed up. That hall sensor was almost 20 years old when I sold the car and still worked fine. Note that TarnX really cleans stuff. Some of the contact cleaners you get are so safe they do nothing. TarnX is pretty aggressive. Rinse well after use. >First make sure that when you pulled the connector off you did not >accidently pull the wires up inside of the plug. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >wheel up with a screw driver. What a nightmare the simple distributor >cap clip has become. "wheel up with a screw driver. What a nightmare the simple distributor cap clip has become. They can be hard to get off without bending the whole thing. Try supporting the wheel on various points, use some heat and then tap the shaft (don't loose the little pin!). You could also try removing the whole shaft by removing the gear. SFC > They can be hard to get off without bending the whole thing. Try supporting > the wheel on various points, use some heat and then tap the shaft (don't > loose the little pin!). You could also try removing the whole shaft by > removing the gear. > SFC Update: I ended up buying a new distributor and the engine started on the first crank. What an expensive adventure. I couldn't drift out the copper pin to remove the gear. Which way does the pin go out? One end is flush with the side of the distributor shaft, the other end is splayed out and somehow the splayed out parts are pressed flush with the gear. I tried tapping on both the unsplayed and the splayed end with a punch, but no movement. Some websites talk about the pin going in with finger pressure. Prior to driving out the pin I had royally messed up the trigger wheel by trying to py it off (Bentley was wrong on that, I needed to drive out the pin out instead of taking the trigger wheel off even though mine isn't a 16 valve engine). The clue here for anyone reading is if there isn't a snap ring holding the trigger wheel, then the wheel is pressed on and doesn't come off. Look to drifting out the pin on the gear instead. So even if I could have replaced the hall sender, I wasn't confident I could reshape the trigger wheel properly to rotate without hitting the hall sender. On the upside, I had very intermittent fading of the engine on acceleration (maybe 2-3 times in past month), I'd press on the gas pedal but no acceleration and engine rpm dropping almost to a stall when I'd come up to a stop light. I figured initially a vacuum leak and checked all the hoses and the rubber bellow from the air cleaner. But it could have also been a problem with the original 19 year old hall sender with 212,000 km on it. Things don't last these days eh? :) But I am still on the original clutch! PS. Jim you talked about cleaning up the contacts. I've been using dielectric grease on my electrical contacts. Is that the grease you mention? Thanks everyone for your tips. I'm back on the road again. >> They can be hard to get off without bending the whole thing. Try supporting >> the wheel on various points, use some heat and then tap the shaft (don't [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > >Thanks everyone for your tips. I'm back on the road again. I just slobbered it up with some yellow lithium grease. I did not have any light bulb grease at the time. Some manufacturers have greased connections from the factory. I forget where I have seen this. I do slobber up the battery posts which keeps that corrosion at bay. Yeah those pins are quite resistant to moving. The other distributor was easier and congrats on getting it running again! The earlier ones, pre-Digifant, have that little circlip and the trigger wheel just pulls up but don't lose that roll pin. lol So now it is running great as it should be? On Apr 10, 2:11 am, "SFC" <sf-cill...@hetnet.nl> wrote: > They can be hard to get off without bending the whole thing. Try > supporting > the wheel on various points, use some heat and then tap the shaft (don't > loose the little pin!). You could also try removing the whole shaft by > removing the gear. > SFC Update: I ended up buying a new distributor and the engine started on the first crank. What an expensive adventure. I couldn't drift out the copper pin to remove the gear. Which way does the pin go out? One end is flush with the side of the distributor shaft, the other end is splayed out and somehow the splayed out parts are pressed flush with the gear. I tried tapping on both the unsplayed and the splayed end with a punch, but no movement. Some websites talk about the pin going in with finger pressure. Prior to driving out the pin I had royally messed up the trigger wheel by trying to py it off (Bentley was wrong on that, I needed to drive out the pin out instead of taking the trigger wheel off even though mine isn't a 16 valve engine). The clue here for anyone reading is if there isn't a snap ring holding the trigger wheel, then the wheel is pressed on and doesn't come off. Look to drifting out the pin on the gear instead. So even if I could have replaced the hall sender, I wasn't confident I could reshape the trigger wheel properly to rotate without hitting the hall sender. On the upside, I had very intermittent fading of the engine on acceleration (maybe 2-3 times in past month), I'd press on the gas pedal but no acceleration and engine rpm dropping almost to a stall when I'd come up to a stop light. I figured initially a vacuum leak and checked all the hoses and the rubber bellow from the air cleaner. But it could have also been a problem with the original 19 year old hall sender with 212,000 km on it. Things don't last these days eh? :) But I am still on the original clutch! PS. Jim you talked about cleaning up the contacts. I've been using dielectric grease on my electrical contacts. Is that the grease you mention? Thanks everyone for your tips. I'm back on the road again. Hi Dave, Yep, the car is running great again. What a relief when it fired up on the first crank! I had no idea what I had done. I'll post something I learned on this fix for posterity. - Initially when putting in the new distributor, I left the the raised, long lug on the oil pump drive shaft in the position when I had pulled the old distributor. I didn't align it to be parallel with the crankshaft (to lie perpendicular to the long axis of the car) as per Bentley before installing the new distrubtor. This is the lug that engages the bottom of the distributor shaft. The initial result was the distributor was rotated too far counter clockwise and the connector on the side of the distributor hit the engine and I couldn't advance the timing to 6 deg BTDC. After thinking about it for awhile, I realized it's the relationship between the rotor and the distributor that determines the timing. The relationship of the distributor to the engine block is irrelevant. Starting the installation again this time with the lug aligned gave me lots of room to turn the distributor. -Tony On Apr 16, 12:35 pm, "dave AKA vwdoc1" <vwdoc1nos...@pleasehotmail.com> wrote: > Yeah those pins are quite resistant to moving. > The other distributor was easier and congrats on getting it running again! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > So now it is running great as it should be? On Apr 15, 10:06 am, Tony49122 <tony49...@gmail.com> wrote: >Prior to driving out the pin I had royally messed up the trigger wheel Too bad we can't edit these newsgroup posts. To clarify my last post, I TRIED driving out the pin but couldn't budge it. Ultimately I had no way to replace the hall sender trapped between the (now distorted) trigger wheel and the body of the distributor. |
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