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Car Forum / Volkswagen / Water Cooled Volkswagen Cars / October 200983 rabbit exhaust-help
Hi all, I am hoping somebody can give me a bit of advice. Recently the pipe in my exhaust system rusted clean through and was actually dragging under my car. It needed some help so I took it to a local muffler shop. They told me my entire exhaust system was shot and needed replacement. My car is an 83 rabbit and was dragging a rusted pipe around- so I had no doubts that it was. They told me they would replace the whole thing from engine back for just over $300- I said go for it (love my little car). Upon its return I noticed it was rattling a bit (still is) and also seemed a bit louder than it should be so I took a peek under neath to see the handy work. I thought maybe a heat shield was rubbing on the pipe or something. Everything looked fine but I could not help but notice there is now no catalytic converter- just a straight pipe. I am rather upset about it and my question is -should I be?? I am on the verge of calling them but am not sure what I should say. Should I be expected to pay extra to have them put a cat on? I do not want to drive around without one for several obvious reasons. Basically I don't want to chew them out unless they have it coming. Any advise or insight on how to handle this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Chris In the USA I believe that it is illegal to remove a catalytic converter on a vehicle that came with one from the factory if it is still being used on our roads as a private vehicle. Very stiff fines for doing that if caught. Ask them about the rattle! Let them show you where it is coming from. Ask them what they had to do to the exhaust, or what they replaced! Usually the rattle comes from a defective catalytic converter and you might not have heard the rattle if the exhaust was really loud! ;-) JMHO  Signaturelater, (One out of many daves) > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Thanks! > Chris > In the USA I believe that it is illegal to remove a catalytic converter on a > vehicle that came with one from the factory if it is still being used on our > roads as a private vehicle. Very stiff fines for doing that if caught. I'm not sure, but I don't think it's illegal everywhere in the US. There are many areas in the US that don't do emissions testing, and in those areas I doubt they would care if you remove the catalytic converter. They might not even check for that. I was once talking with someone who lived in an area that doesn't do emissions testing, and he didn't mention any legal problems. Eric http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_legal_to_remove_a_catalytic_converter_on_your_ow n_car_in_Michigan "It is not legal to modify the emissions sytem in any state. Doing so is a violation of Federal Law" http://autoparts.lifetips.com/cat/61691/emissions-control/ "According to federal law, catalytic converters may not be removed and replaced with "converter replacement pipes" by any person. The 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments even prohibit private individuals from installing "converter replacement pipes" on their own vehicles. Anyone who installs such pipes would violate the Clean Air Act." this was interesting reading http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=wi&vol=wisctapp2\2004\03- 3536&invol=1 I would not want to be caught removing one! <g> Signaturelater, (One out of many daves) >> In the USA I believe that it is illegal to remove a catalytic converter >> on a vehicle that came with one from the factory if it is still being [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Eric On Sep 10, 4:30 pm, "dave AKA vwdoc1" <vwdoc1nos...@pleasehotmail.com> wrote: > http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_legal_to_remove_a_catalytic_converter... > "It is not legal to modify the emissions sytem in any state. Doing so is a [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > > Eric I am in a state that does not do emissions tests.... whether it is legal or not I doubt I would get called on it (anytime soon that is). Still I just hate the idea of driving around without a converter. My car even smells noxious, I am certain they removed the cat. I also checked out my receipt today and no note of a charge for a catalytic converter. I am really thinking they messed with my car. I'll be calling them on it tomorrow, I guess we will see what they have to say for themselves. Someone mentioned to me that they might have used a muffler with a built in catalytic converter? I had never heard of that as even an option. Do those exist? If anyone has any info on this I would be interested to hear it. Also I have heard that without a cat your car is more likely to trap extra unburned fuel in the pipe and is possible for it to start on fire. If they built the cat into the muffler would this still be a concern? I am perhaps a little weird and keep a small fire extinguisher in my car but that does not mean I ever want to use it! Thanks so much to all of you. Cheerio, Chris Let us know what they say! I have not heard of the cat in the muffler, but maybe! lol snip I am in a state that does not do emissions tests.... whether it is legal or not I doubt I would get called on it (anytime soon that is). Still I just hate the idea of driving around without a converter. My car even smells noxious, I am certain they removed the cat. I also checked out my receipt today and no note of a charge for a catalytic converter. I am really thinking they messed with my car. I'll be calling them on it tomorrow, I guess we will see what they have to say for themselves. Someone mentioned to me that they might have used a muffler with a built in catalytic converter? I had never heard of that as even an option. Do those exist? If anyone has any info on this I would be interested to hear it. Also I have heard that without a cat your car is more likely to trap extra unburned fuel in the pipe and is possible for it to start on fire. If they built the cat into the muffler would this still be a concern? I am perhaps a little weird and keep a small fire extinguisher in my car but that does not mean I ever want to use it! Thanks so much to all of you. Cheerio, Chris I doubt that would work, cats need to be hot to work, that is why they are always near the engine. nate > Let us know what they say! > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Cheerio, > Chris Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel oh, and if they got rid of the cat make sure you still have an O2 sensor! you need that for proper closed loop operation nate > Let us know what they say! > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Cheerio, > Chris Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > oh, and if they got rid of the cat make sure you still have an O2 > sensor! you need that for proper closed loop operation [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > -- > replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel Hi All, Just got off the phone with the place that did the work on my car, they said I can bring my car in later this afternoon and they will take a look at it. It does not sound promising however. The person I just spoke with said they only replaced from the catalytic converter back which is total bs. He also said if they would have replaced the converter it would have added about $700 to the bill. So I am getting the feeling they are going to try to make me either forget the whole thing or pay $700. I have checked around online and it shows converters for my car for well under $100, and I told him that. He said "well you can try that but they usually do not work out" followed by a chuckle. What is that supposed to mean? Do aftermarket cats not work?? Can someone help me out here, am I being messed with? Thanks a ton, Chris > > oh, and if they got rid of the cat make sure you still have an O2 > > sensor! you need that for proper closed loop operation [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > Thanks a ton, > Chris I just got back from the shop, it has been confirmed that there is no cat:) Of course he tried to say it was possible that there was not one on it to begin with. There was and I made that clear. I'll hear back from them tomorrow after they talk to the manager so I guess we will see how it goes. I'll keep you posted. Cheers, Chris What does your receipt actually say? I have forgotten how the exhaust system is/was on the '83 Rabbits. IIRC I seem to remember that some '83 Rabbits had a front pipe that is held unto the exhaust manifold with 2 spring clips. That pipe was also the catalytic converter. The center pipe slipped over the cat and clamped down So you need to determine what was changed on your vehicle! Some of the earlier Rabbits had a front pipe (AKA Downpipe) that bolted to both the exhaust manifold (6 bolts). The Downpipe connected to an accordian looking pipe (AKA Flex pipe with 3 bolts) which connected to the cat (3 bolts). Then the center pipe bolted to the cat also. So the cat was part of the center pipe since the Rabbits without cats had a different style Flex pipe that bolted to the Downpipe and allowed a longer center pipe to slip over the Flex pipe. I could be wrong so someone correct me! And yes those cheap catalytic converters should be easy to install and would be legal AFAIK! ;-) Signaturelater, (One out of many daves) > On 11 Sep, 18:42, Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > Thanks a ton, > Chris I just got back from the shop, it has been confirmed that there is no cat:) Of course he tried to say it was possible that there was not one on it to begin with. There was and I made that clear. I'll hear back from them tomorrow after they talk to the manager so I guess we will see how it goes. I'll keep you posted. Cheers, Chris >What does your receipt actually say? > >I have forgotten how the exhaust system is/was on the '83 Rabbits. >IIRC I seem to remember that some '83 Rabbits had a front pipe that is held >unto the exhaust manifold with 2 spring clips. That pipe was also the >catalytic converter. I've seen them with the front pipe using spring clips, that ends in a flange at the cat. > The center pipe slipped over the cat and clamped down >So you need to determine what was changed on your vehicle! [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >And yes those cheap catalytic converters should be easy to install and would >be legal AFAIK! ;-) > On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:04:49 -0500, "dave AKA vwdoc1" > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >And yes those cheap catalytic converters should be easy to install and would > >be legal AFAIK! ;-) They said my old cat had been hollowed out so that is why a new one was not put on. They want me to pay another $300 if I want them to put a cat on or I can buy my own and they will weld it on for $100 in labor. unhappy. Chris Based on personal experience... up to 82 was the 4 into 2 manifold, dual down pipe, flex pipe, cat (seen a few that burned themselves out, nothing left in them), center pipe,... and always a tight fit over the rear axle/trailing arm thingy (nice place to rattle). 83 GTI had 4 into 1 (aka toilet bowl exhaust) held together with the 2 spring clips, cat (no flex pipe anymore)... Don't know why they did that other than maybe cheaper because it was an increase in restriction compared to the 4 into 2. And going earlier... my 79 (orig. with a 1.6) had dual downpipe, then flex pipe (longer than the 82), no cat (leaded fuel),... Personally, I'd not worry about no cat unless you'll be failing a visual inspection or emissions test, in which case put a cheapy on it. No 02 sensor behind it anyway. Just one up front in the manifold and it would be wise to go ahead and replace that with a new one either way. > What does your receipt actually say? > [quoted text clipped - 85 lines] > Cheers, > Chris |
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