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Re: headlights on all day

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Re: headlights on all day

Dave Plowman (News)03 Oct 2006 00:02
> Hear, hear!  Like the woman I saw get into her car yesterday who
> had to dial someone on her cell phone before she even started
> the engine!  Boy I wish cells were illegal in moving vehicles.

They are in the UK. Unless you have a proper hands free kit. But it made
absolutely no difference to the numbers using them as it's not enforced.
And despite them now having been around for many a year, plenty still
can't multi-task with them. So the driving gets neglected.

Signature

*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch.  

   Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                 To e-mail, change noise into sound.


Bob Smitter02 Oct 2006 23:15
>i have one for all of you ... how about everyone on this planet learns
> how to drive better and start paying more atention to what thier doing
> instead of driving like a.ses all the time ... then we wouldnt need ..
> DRL's or parking lights ... or ne of the other bullshit on our cars
> that .. lets face it makes them look ridiculus ..

Hear, hear!  Like the woman I saw get into her car yesterday who
had to dial someone on her cell phone before she even started
the engine!  Boy I wish cells were illegal in moving vehicles.

Kriznaft02 Oct 2006 19:28
i have one for all of you ... how about everyone on this planet learns
how to drive better and start paying more atention to what thier doing
instead of driving like a.ses all the time ... then we wouldnt need ..
DRL's or parking lights ... or ne of the other bullshit on our cars
that .. lets face it makes them look ridiculus ..

Ulf02 Oct 2006 14:59
>>>> Yup, GM likes to equip Saturns with them. Fortunately a few new
>>>> BMW's have "angle eyes" DRLs. I assume this is mostly due to Audi's
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> practice is obsolete AFAIK, but the "city lights" are still sometimes
> found on some cars and are used as parking lights.

My Yamaha XTZ750 has a small bulb in the lower part of the headlight
reflector, my BMW E34 with projector headlights has a bulb in the upper
part of the headlight, and my Camaro has separate lights in the bumper
cover (shared with the turn signal, side marker lights, and DRLs). All
of these lights are what I call parking lights. You may call them
whatever you want, but the point of the matter is that it's illegal to
drive around with nothing but them on. Of course, the are allowed to be
on in combination with the headlights, fog lights, etc.

> There are no requirements to have or use parking lights or city lights
> anywhere in the US that I am aware of.  Having *any* lights on when a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> drivers can get a sense of the width of the vehicle, especially in the
> event of a burnt out headlamp.

All new passenger vehicles in the US, and Europe, must be equipped with
parking lights. That's the law.

>>> DRLs are *supposed* to be obnoxious.  If they aren't getting your
>>> attention, they aren't doing what they are intended to do...
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> day with just angel eyes on is akin to having no DRLs as nobody will be
> alerted to your presence by them.

I don't know where you live, but here the weather isn't just hot and
sunny. There's rain, overcast, fog, snow, etc. and in all of those
situations high beam DRLs are too bright. Likewise during dusk and dawn.
"Angle eye" DRLs, just like the LED DRLs on Audi's, are a great idea on
the new E90 IMO.

> If you're saying that you are using your DRLs at night (instead of your
> headlights) and that is when there is a glare problem, then you are
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Do you have some evidence that high beam running lights are illegal
> everywhere except North America?  I kind of doubt that this is true.

I'm sure you do, but there's no way you can get high beam DRLs approved
as DRLs in "ECE-land". IIRC the maximum light from DRLs in Europe is 800
cd, while in NA it's 7000 cd. That should tell you something...

Ulf

Fred W02 Oct 2006 12:41
>>> Yup, GM likes to equip Saturns with them. Fortunately a few new BMW's
>>> have "angle eyes" DRLs. I assume this is mostly due to Audi's
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> most countries in the world require parking lights, even the US, so
> they're not reserved for "obscure European places."

Please try to comprehend.  Parking lights and city lights are two
different things.  Parking lights are used when the car is parked
(obviously) in an attempt to keep it from being hit by passing
motorists.  City lights were intended to be used in lieu of headlights
when operating in certain designated city limits, where the streetlights
 supposedly were adequate, to prevent glare to oncoming drivers.  That
practice is obsolete AFAIK, but the "city lights" are still sometimes
found on some cars and are used as parking lights.

There are no requirements to have or use parking lights or city lights
anywhere in the US that I am aware of.  Having *any* lights on when a
car is parked is not common practice here.  What is required are
"running lights" which are usually the same lamps that you might call
"parking lights" except they are illuminated while driving so that other
drivers can get a sense of the width of the vehicle, especially in the
event of a burnt out headlamp.

>> DRLs are *supposed* to be obnoxious.  If they aren't getting your
>> attention, they aren't doing what they are intended to do...
>
> No, they're not. High beams, even at a reduced voltage, are *too* bright
> to be used with oncoming traffic. They're also illegal outside NA, why
> do you think that is..?

High beams even at full voltage are not too bright to be used as DRLs
when they are intended to be used, DURING THE DAY!!!  They are run at
reduced level to save the headlamps from burning out, not to decrease
glare to oncoming drivers.  During daylight hours your pupils are
adjusted to the higher ambient light and glare from headlights is not an
issue.  You may be irritated by these headlights, but you know they are
there, so they are accomplishing their goal.  Running around during the
day with just angel eyes on is akin to having no DRLs as nobody will be
alerted to your presence by them.

If you're saying that you are using your DRLs at night (instead of your
headlights) and that is when there is a glare problem, then you are
obviously using your lights incorrectly.  In most cars, when operating
on DRLs there are no rear or running lights on, which is obviously
against the law at night.

Do you have some evidence that high beam running lights are illegal
everywhere except North America?  I kind of doubt that this is true.

Signature

-Fred W


Ulf02 Oct 2006 11:13
>> Yup, GM likes to equip Saturns with them. Fortunately a few new BMW's
>> have "angle eyes" DRLs. I assume this is mostly due to Audi's
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> place of "city lights" in those obscure European places that still
> require such, but they are most certainly NOT DRLs.

Please keep up. On the "older" BMW's they're used as parking lights
only, but starting on the new E90 coupe they'll be used as DRLs too. And
most countries in the world require parking lights, even the US, so
they're not reserved for "obscure European places."

> DRLs are *supposed* to be obnoxious.  If they aren't getting your
> attention, they aren't doing what they are intended to do...

No, they're not. High beams, even at a reduced voltage, are *too* bright
to be used with oncoming traffic. They're also illegal outside NA, why
do you think that is..?

Ulf

Fred W02 Oct 2006 00:54
> Yup, GM likes to equip Saturns with them. Fortunately a few new BMW's
> have "angle eyes" DRLs. I assume this is mostly due to Audi's successful
> LED DRLs.

"Angle" (sic) eyes are not DRLs.  I suppose that they they take the
place of "city lights" in those obscure European places that still
require such, but they are most certainly NOT DRLs.

DRLs are *supposed* to be obnoxious.  If they aren't getting your
attention, they aren't doing what they are intended to do...

Signature

-Fred W


Ulf30 Sep 2006 22:39
>>> I don't get how BMW can be stupid enough to use the high beams as DRLs.
>>> Turn signals, fog lights or low beams at a reduced voltage would have
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> The best option is a set of lights specifically designed to be used as
> running lights, i.e., with the appropriate intensity and beam pattern.

Exactly.

>> One:  They are more apt to get the attention of other drivers as they
>> are fairly bright, even at reduced intensity.  
>
> Yes, they are fairly bright, and annoyingly distractive in my rear view
> mirror.   I don't consider either of those attributes to be a feature.

They're more than fairly bright, they're way too bright to be used as DRLs.

>> Two:  If you burn one of
>> them out (due to them being constantly on) you will not lose any of the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> If I remember correctly, GM made the same foolish engineering decision
> regarding running lights.  I thought BMW knew better....

Yup, GM likes to equip Saturns with them. Fortunately a few new BMW's
have "angle eyes" DRLs. I assume this is mostly due to Audi's successful
LED DRLs.

Ulf

bjn30 Sep 2006 14:12
>> I don't get how BMW can be stupid enough to use the high beams as DRLs.
>> Turn signals, fog lights or low beams at a reduced voltage would have
>> been much better...
>
>Actually, no.  The high beams at reduced intensity are the best option
>for two reasons.

The best option is a set of lights specifically designed to be used as
running lights, i.e., with the appropriate intensity and beam pattern.

>One:  They are more apt to get the attention of other drivers as they
>are fairly bright, even at reduced intensity.  

Yes, they are fairly bright, and annoyingly distractive in my rear view
mirror.   I don't consider either of those attributes to be a feature.

>Two:  If you burn one of
>them out (due to them being constantly on) you will not lose any of the
>more important light functions:

This is not a justification to use the high beams as running lights, this
is a reason to have a separate set of running lights.

If I remember correctly, GM made the same foolish engineering decision
regarding running lights.  I thought BMW knew better....

Fred W28 Sep 2006 14:04
> I don't get how BMW can be stupid enough to use the high beams as DRLs.
> Turn signals, fog lights or low beams at a reduced voltage would have
> been much better...

Actually, no.  The high beams at reduced intensity are the best option
for two reasons.

One:  They are more apt to get the attention of other drivers as they
are fairly bright, even at reduced intensity.  Two:  If you burn one of
them out (due to them being constantly on) you will not lose any of the
more important light functions: signalling turns, or low beams.  Don't
forget, not all cars come equiped with fog lights.  Having fog lights
where I live is completely unnecesary as we seldom get real fog.

Signature

-Fred W


Ulf25 Sep 2006 17:51
>> i have a 325is 95 and the high beams on on as soon as i turn on my car
>> .. they are quite a bit dimmer then if i turn on my lights .. i know
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> This link should help you locate the module to remove.
> http://www.unofficialbmw.com/e36/electrical/e36_daytime_running_lights.html

I don't get how BMW can be stupid enough to use the high beams as DRLs.
Turn signals, fog lights or low beams at a reduced voltage would have
been much better...

Ulf

Fred W25 Sep 2006 15:00
> i have a 325is 95 and the high beams on on as soon as i turn on my car
> .. they are quite a bit dimmer then if i turn on my lights .. i know
> there suposed to be like that but i want to know how make them not come
> on untill i want them to.

That is called "Daytime Running Lights" or DRLs for short.

This link should help you locate the module to remove.
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/e36/electrical/e36_daytime_running_lights.html

Signature

-Fred W


Kriznaft25 Sep 2006 01:03
i have a 325is 95 and the high beams on on as soon as i turn on my car
.. they are quite a bit dimmer then if i turn on my lights .. i know
there suposed to be like that but i want to know how make them not come
on untill i want them to.

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