Re: BMW Clutch Issue
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Re: BMW Clutch Issue
| jim | 16 Jun 2007 12:00 |
> It means the former. OK so you push the pedal to the floor, at that point you find that the transmission is not disengaged and when you lift your foot you find that the pedal is not returning? Right? I think the way it works on these is the hydraulic pressure from the slave pushes the master and thus returns the pedal. You can assume that the problem is not a line blockage or sticking clutch that prevents the return of the fluid because if that were the case the transmission would be stuck in disengaged not stuck in engaged. Anyway, If anything mechanical was sticking or bent or broken it's difficult to see how pulling on the pedal and/or pumping it could fix that, so it would seem that the only explanation is hydraulic pressure is lost between the slave and master cyl. I assume you would look for and notice an external leak? I suppose it is possible that if the line was near the exhaust boiling the brake fluid could be the cause.
>But all of the hydraulics have been replaced. I > don't see anything else that can be replaced. I do not see any sort of > check valve anywhere that could be leaking, either. Yes there is a check valve. The piston inside the master cylinder behaves as a check valve. This is why pumping restores the lost fluid between slave and master. If that seal leaks while stepping on the clutch then the fluid goes back into the reservoir and you get the symptoms you describe. Assuming a faulty master cyl. is not the cause, I suppose it's possible that the wear on the pedal linkage may be causing a stress on the piston for which it was not designed. A side load or excess travel causing the piston seal to fail.
-jim
> >> I could pull the pedal up and pump it down a couple > >> times and the clutch would open properly again. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > -- > "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
| Scott Dorsey | 15 Jun 2007 18:19 |
>> Starting around 220,000 miles, the clutch began sticking closed. That is, >> I'd put my foot down, the pedal would stick to the ground, and the clutch [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >the latter then there is no clear indication of a problem with the >hydraulics and the mechanical linkage would likely be the problem. It means the former. But all of the hydraulics have been replaced. I don't see anything else that can be replaced. I do not see any sort of check valve anywhere that could be leaking, either.
>> I could pull the pedal up and pump it down a couple >> times and the clutch would open properly again. > >What does "clutch would open properly" mean. If you don't do the pumping >thing then the transmission will remain engaged? or remain disengaged? >or what? It will remain engaged, with the pedal stuck to the floor, which is bad.
>>It started happening now >> and then, and then more and more often. > >Has your mechanic actually been able to reproduce the problem or is he >going only by your description of the problem? If he has seen the car >when the problem exists I would take it to another mechanic. He has been able to reproduce it while driving but not up on the lift. I am annoyed that he has been trying to fix the problem by swapping things out, but by the same token everything has BEEN swapped out at this point. --scott
 Signature "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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| jim | 15 Jun 2007 16:43 |
> Starting around 220,000 miles, the clutch began sticking closed. That is, > I'd put my foot down, the pedal would stick to the ground, and the clutch > would remain engaged. Can't tell what "clutch remains engaged" means? Does that mean the transmission is engaged or does it mean the opposite? If it means the former it is pretty evident that the hydraulics have failed. If it means the latter then there is no clear indication of a problem with the hydraulics and the mechanical linkage would likely be the problem.
> I could pull the pedal up and pump it down a couple > times and the clutch would open properly again. What does "clutch would open properly" mean. If you don't do the pumping thing then the transmission will remain engaged? or remain disengaged? or what?
>It started happening now > and then, and then more and more often. Has your mechanic actually been able to reproduce the problem or is he going only by your description of the problem? If he has seen the car when the problem exists I would take it to another mechanic.
-jim
> I replaced the plunger on the clutch master cylinder, which was leaking, > on the suspicion the seal in it was bad. Didn't fix anything. Took it [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > -- > "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
| Scott Dorsey | 15 Jun 2007 01:56 |
1986 BMW 535i. I bought it a few years ago with a bad transmission and only 120k miles, and a friend of mine dropped an '83 junkyard transmission into it and a new clutch. It's been running well, and I have slowly been cleaning various things on it up.
Starting around 220,000 miles, the clutch began sticking closed. That is, I'd put my foot down, the pedal would stick to the ground, and the clutch would remain engaged. I could pull the pedal up and pump it down a couple times and the clutch would open properly again. It started happening now and then, and then more and more often.
I replaced the plunger on the clutch master cylinder, which was leaking, on the suspicion the seal in it was bad. Didn't fix anything. Took it to a respected BMW indy mechanic around here, who swore I did it wrong and replaced the plunger again. Didn't fix anything. Replaced the whole master cylinder. Didn't do anything. Changed the fluid and replaced the slave cylinder. Still no go.
Now, I am assuming that there is no possibility of the line between the two cylinders being an issue, and no backflow valve anywhere in the system. Is this correct?
Recently it got worse, and I took it in to him again. At this point, we figure it has to be something inside the transmission. He drops it, and replaces everything that looks even a bit suspicious, namely the throwout bearing release lever, the lever pin, the clutch release bearing, and the shift bushings. Everything else looks clean, though neither one of us could see how any one of these would cause the problem.
Putting the thing back together, the problem is now actually worse, since the friction point is closer to the floor than it was before. The car is now doing it almost all the time, making it impossible to drive except on the highway.
Help! Anybody have any suggestions about what could be causing this issue? --scott
 Signature "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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