Re: Alternative LED bulbs - ECU confusion?
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Re: Alternative LED bulbs - ECU confusion?
| hsg@h-gee.co.uk | 20 Oct 2007 17:53 |
>>>> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >(and I now await an intelligent response of 'ALL') - be specific rather >than the abuse and arrogance the other posts from you have 'offered' You ask about the effectiveness of LED replacement bulbs.
A question you don't have to ask as the people that sell them will tell you that they do not comply to construction and use regulations therefore they are not as efficient as the ones that are type approved.
As Dave said they are a fashion item except for the correctly E marked LED units sold by reputable "dealers" or "outlets".
My car has LED lights as do many of the newer VW, Audi and I think Ford vehicles. My old car had LED high level brake lights but these were not type approved as they do not have to be. The effectiveness of them were great - blinding anyone within 2 meters of my back bumper and illuminating the entire road behind me when braking. Better than WW2 searchlights...........
Stuff them into a set of E38 rear lights and with the red lens they're total crap and there is no differentiation to 5W rear lamp and 25W stop lamp.
Road regs demand 5W bulbs for sidelights and 25W for stop light so if you fit something that has not been rated at those figures then you can rest assured that they are crap for use on the road.
Ok now go and argue that a 100W headlamp is better then a 55W bulb and I might agree with the simplistic view that the brighter lamp should put more light on the road and probably does but generally (and this has been proven) the light scatter from the 100W unit gives a worse light distribution than the stock 55W or 60W bulb angled correctly. Also the legal bulbs have a UV filter built into the "glass" envelope whereas the ilea gal one do not and if, like many current vehicles, you happen to have acrylic based plastic lens and other fittings within the headlamp then the UV output is enough to discolour and eventually crack these.
Another thing to consider is that LED use UV radiation (minute) and its part of the red light spectrum so red lenses can and will degrade any output unless specifically designed to do the job - Oh - no such thing as white LED they are actually blue and expensive.
Your answer please.
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Sir Hugh of Bognor
The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!
Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK
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| DCA | 20 Oct 2007 12:58 |
>>> >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Again you are talking BOLLOCKS > OK Mr Gobshite - and on which specific what point am I talking bollocks (and I now await an intelligent response of 'ALL') - be specific rather than the abuse and arrogance the other posts from you have 'offered'
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| hsg@h-gee.co.uk | 19 Oct 2007 15:43 |
>> >>>>> As for E marking - the lack of it doesn't mean they don't comply, it [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >expensive type approval routine. Non-E number means its compliance >cannot be verified NOT that it does not comply with requirements! Again you are talking BOLLOCKS
 Signature
Sir Hugh of Bognor
The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys. Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!
Hugh Gundersen hsg@h-gee.co.uk Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK
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| DCA | 19 Oct 2007 12:13 |
> >>>> As for E marking - the lack of it doesn't mean they don't comply, it [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > I disagree - they appear better top me which is why I want to try them Rear of lorries/motorcycles/school & public buses have them now too. The E number is not of concern to me - but obviously poor functionality is of concern. E numbers mean the bulb manufacturer has gone through an expensive type approval routine. Non-E number means its compliance cannot be verified NOT that it does not comply with requirements!
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| Dave Plowman (News) | 16 Oct 2007 22:46 |
> >> As for E marking - the lack of it doesn't mean they don't comply, it > >> merely means they haven't been type approved. > > > > Which means that they are illegal to use on the road.
> Well not in the UK, which has [eventually] modified construction and use > regulation to allow LED lights, but to certain criteria. It allows purpose designed E marked LED lamp units - which is a *very* different matter from using LED replacement bulbs in units designed for filament types. Replacement bulbs for those must be E marked too - and none of the LED ones are, for a very good reason. And that reason is they are dangerous. Just to emphasise the points again they are either bright enough when viewed straight on but useless to the side - one type - or dim all round - the other type.
Oh - FWIW, the custom designed LED indictor units fitted to current VW cars are not as bright viewed from directly behind as filament types and considerably inferior to the sides. So could present a totally unnecessary hazard in bright sunlight - all in the name of fashion.
 Signature *There's two theories to arguing with a woman. Neither one works *
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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| R. Mark Clayton | 16 Oct 2007 17:52 |
>> As for E marking - the lack of it doesn't mean they don't comply, it >> merely means they haven't been type approved. > > Which means that they are illegal to use on the road. Well not in the UK, which has [eventually] modified construction and use regulation to allow LED lights, but to certain criteria.
A good example of UK civil service jobsworthiness is reflective number plates: -
These were shown on Tomorrow's World about 40 years ago.
DoT (as it then was) rejected them out of hand and drivers who fitted them prematurely were prosecuted.
OTOH Ireland was an early adopter.
Finally the UK went over to them and only cars pre 1973 could have non reflective plates made.
Now they are obligatory, not only that if your [cherished] plate is to be fitted to a post 2000 car, then you have to have new ones made with the BS mark, although I suppose if they were compliant with BS you could post fix the mark (see another thread).
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| RustY© | 15 Oct 2007 19:48 |
> As for E marking - the lack of it doesn't mean they don't comply, it > merely means they haven't been type approved. Which means that they are illegal to use on the road.
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| DCA | 15 Oct 2007 13:41 |
> >> Take a look and tell me what you think - these seem pretty well designed [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > You're probably right but these ones have high intensity pointing to the rear with side clusters for the reflectors They *may* be very good and I think I will give it a go with front indicators first As for E marking - the lack of it doesn't mean they don't comply, it merely means they haven't been type approved. This could be due to tyhe fact that it costs so much to achieve these markings. It's rather like saying that someone who has passed a driving test is a better driver than someone who hasn't - which of course is not necessarily true (just that passing proves it!). Worth a try for £5
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| Dave Plowman (News) | 15 Oct 2007 08:43 |
> Take a look and tell me what you think - these seem pretty well designed > to widen the viewing angle: > http://www.virtualvillage.co.uk/Items/002510-030? These simply don't produce the same light levels as a 21 watt indicator bulb in the normal reflector.
Euro car lighting parts must be 'E' marked to conform with those regs. And non of these replacements are - simply because they can't produce the correct spread of light at an intensity to replace a 21 watt filament type. The other type of LED replacement with 5mm leds 'firing' forward do just about produce the same intensity - but only over a very narrow angle.
For safety lights like indicators etc where a wide viewing angle is required these things are positively dangerous - they can't be seen in bright daylight.
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Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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| DCA | 15 Oct 2007 08:07 |
> >> Can anyone advise me if fitting after market LED bulbs in indicators, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Take a look and tell me what you think - these seem pretty well designed to widen the viewing angle: http://www.virtualvillage.co.uk/Items/002510-030?
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| Dave Plowman (News) | 14 Oct 2007 23:44 |
> Can anyone advise me if fitting after market LED bulbs in indicators, > side adn brake lights confuse the onboard computer? > I prefer the more responsive light they offer but don't want the car > dinging me about dead bulbs! For a start there are no direct replacement LEDs for units designed for tungsten - the optics on these lights is optimised for a point source filament. And for things like indictors this is a very real problem in sunlight etc - the LED replacements simply won't be as bright, or have the same viewing angle. And it's not just a slight difference either. There are currently no LED replacements that meet the specifications required by law in Europe. Completely new lamp units designed from the start for LEDs are a different matter.
They will also confuse the failed bulb warning system.
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Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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| DCA | 14 Oct 2007 20:49 |
Can anyone advise me if fitting after market LED bulbs in indicators, side adn brake lights confuse the onboard computer? I prefer the more responsive light they offer but don't want the car dinging me about dead bulbs!
I've a 2001 E39
Thanks David
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