The XES HU doesn't really have anything in common with the C90 except that
they're both Sony products.  The Z50 has an in-dash controller and trunk
mounted changer/processor combo as it's source.  It walks all over the C90.
I did like the 9255 but the few people I knew that had them said they had
lots of problems with them and they didn't recomend them.   Never heard of
any problems with the McIntosh version.  Go figure.

The original Rubicons were my favorite SSs.  I like the PCX  PPIs.  Great
sounding (not as nice as  the Art series though) and flexible as hell.

Paul Vina

how can you leave out the kissing cousins of HU McIn 4k and Cla 9255
the Sony XES which used the ES for it's foundation.

I really liked the ole soundstream set up, and PPI

I've had a C90 and it blows anything Eclipse makes currently or has made
completely out of the water.  The only HUs I've heard that are even in it's
performance category are the Alpine 7990, Pioneer ODR cd HU, Pioneer XES HU
(that's not really a fair comparison though) and the Alpine 7909.

Paul Vina

<< Sony wasn't crap until they disolved the mobileES line a couple of years ago
and it was downhill from there >>

I never thought any of their non-ES product was worthwhile, but I definitely
agree that their ES Car Audio product was kick-a.s. When I began shopping for
decks several months ago, a local dealer still had a brand-spankin' new
CDX-C90ES that I was really tempted to buy, nice deck. Although I'd think that
my CD8443 should be able to perform as well or better.

Sony wasn't crap until they disolved the mobileES line a couple of years ago
and it was downhill from there.  Too bad really.  For the money I'd do a
Pioneer or live with a few less features and get an lower end Eclipse or
Alpine.

Paul Vina

Clarion quickly made my list of products not to buy after knowing someone who
needed to exchange their deck twice under warranty before getting one that
worked properly. And even then, I was un-impressed by it's sound quality.
Nakamichi, Sony, Aiwa, and Panasonic are on the list as well, although the Nak
units do sound quite nice. As far as bang for the buck goes in terms of the
price:features ratio, I think Blaupunkt and Pioneer have the market beat. And,
IMHO, Alpine and Eclipse own the SQ arena. Although I think the Nak units offer
a damn good sound, and I hear that McIntosh's deck is quite nice as well,
although I've never heard it before.

I stopped liking them after they went to that stupid secong version of the
Alpha-touch volume with the ball instead of the little pyramid.  They were
absolute garbage for about 6 years after that.

Paul Vina

"Paul Vina" <paulvina@comcast.net> wrote in message news:Er6zb.282778

Am I the only one who still likes Clarion, sure after the 9375 they haven't
been the same but there far from horrible, just not as good.  They still put
a whole lot of stuff in a deck, for better or worse.

The cheapest I've seen it from an Authorized dealer is $399.  Even with my
ex-employee discount I would only save $30 or off of retail.  There is no
margin in Alpine electronics.  Their
speakers are another matter entirely though.

Paul Vina

Not sure if the B+ lead goes to the battery or not...

I've heard that etronics is not an "authorized" Alpine distributor.
Would you be concerned about that given that the warranties are only 1
year anyway and that they are well built machines?  I can get the 9813
for $285 from Etronics...Though, I'd consider spending a couple more
dollars to get the warranty, though, if it's much more I'll have to
drop down to the 9811 because it'll go past what I'm willing to spend.
Anyone know of a cheap place to get Alpine from an authorized dealer?

Thanks.
Mike

It's marketing.  If that HU amp really put out enough power to justify a
10ga. power kit than it wouldn't fit a HU to begin with.  I have never, and
will never, wire an Alpine to the battry with a 10ga. kit.  Besides, the
factory B+ lead goes to the battery as well, doesn't it?  Hmmmm.

Paul Vina

*laughs*  Ya know, I was actually counting the buttons on the
different units.  I'd really prefer it have MORE buttons than less.
Should give me more access to things without looking.  I don't mind
complex.  It keeps people from messing with my settings!  Plus, I like
a good challenge.

I'm really most interested in MP3 capabilities and the display, but I
want it to sound good, of course.

The Eclipse 3413 does come with MP3 capabilities, though I haven't
figured out if it will read ID3 tags, which would be a big issue if it
doesn't.  Also, I like the fact that the Alpine will play Play Lists
and you can search for artists, etc.  Pretty nice features, really.  A
friend at work has an Alpine that he got a couple of years ago and it
only shows directory numbers and song numbers instead of text.

Hey Paul, when you hooked up your 9815, did you hook it directly up to
your car battery?  What's up with that?  I read on another thread that
that's how it was supposed to be connected, but others said that
wasn't necessarily true.

Thanks.

I agre with Steve, Eclipse's user interface is a lot simpler on the 55430 I
had but I haven't used either of the new units with DSP so I can't say how
easy they are to use.  After having my 9815 for a coupl eof weeks it's
gotten a LOT easier to use, not nearly as unintuitive as I first thought.
Also, most of the Eclipse units will require the purchase and installation
of the Commander unit to play back MP3s.  If that's a big thing for you look
at the Alpine a bit more.

Paul Vina

I agree with Paul on most of his points. Clarion's HU have been going downhill
in the quality dept. sine the early 1990s, Alpine and Eclipse both offer
superior sound quality to the Clarion, and sound approx. the same as each
other. I personally couldn't get into the Alpine decks only because I didn't
like their user interface. Pick whichever of the two you like using more, I
love my Eclipse deck.

I'd go with Alpine.  I haven't felt Clarion made a solid HU since the
original ProAudio heads in 92 and 93 (like my old 6770) no matter how many
bells and whistles they put in them.  My wife and I both have the 9815
(almost identical to the 9813) and I couldn't recommend them more.  The
Eclipse IMO does not sound any better then the Alpine (I had a 55430) so go
for the Alpine.

Paul Vina

Hey everyone.  I'm trying to decide which deck to put in my car to
replace my stock HU

Primary wants:
*MP3 capability with ID3 translation.

*Decent/Large Display for viewing Text.

*Good sound quality, but not willing to pay for super-high end.  I'd
like to stay around $300 or so.

*Ideally the unit will utilize Play Lists and random-play sub folders.

*I may very well add a sub or replace stock speakers and add amps,
etc, so that flexibility would be nice, but not a priority.  I'd
prefer it to sound solid as it is without needing to add amps.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Alpine, but the feature set of the
Clarion is making me hesitate.  I understand that Eclipse makes great
decks, but, I think I'll be dissapointed in the feature set just to
get a little bit better sound quality, if any.

Thanks for the thoughts.