Re: bio-diesel hybrid future
You are accessing this site in a read-only mode. For full access to all member benefits, including message posting, please login or register. Registration is completely free, simple, and takes only a few seconds.
Login |
Free CarKB.com registration |
Whole discussion thread
The message you are replying to and its parents are listed in the reverse order with the most recent posts first. This might not be the whole discussion thread. To read all the messages in this thread please click here.
Re: bio-diesel hybrid future
| UltraJohn | 27 Aug 2005 19:09 |
> It is not impossible to generate this energy on a daily basis by replacing > the roof materials of family houses by solar panels with a high [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > / 24 hours = 100 W continuous, one would need about 7 m^2 of solar panel > on the roof. It's not too difficult to do this. The difficult part is getting the sun on it for 24 hours each day! ;-) You might want to recompute with some more realistic daylight hours. Also efficiency drops off a lot in morning and evening and I'm not sure your "average" figures take that into account. John
|
| shakiro | 27 Aug 2005 16:35 |
> The problem with burning hydrogen is that solar panels can't make enough of > it. To replace today's vehicular use of oil, we'd need 230,000 tons of > hydrogen daily. Solar cells to make that much hydrogen would cover about > 20,000 square kilometers. To get this much power -- 400 gigawatts daily -- Daily, or continuously? There is no 'power daily', only energy daily. But if you mean continuously, then the energy would be 400 gigawatts (400 GW in short) * 24 hours = 9600 Gigawatthour (9600 GWh in short) daily. Now I wonder for which population you submit these figures. If it is for the world's population of about 4 billion that you are talking, then per head of the population you'd get an energy consumption of 9600 GWh / 4 billion, or 9.6/4 = 2.4 kWh (kilowatthour) daily.
It is not impossible to generate this energy on a daily basis by replacing the roof materials of family houses by solar panels with a high efficiency. In The Netherlands for instance, a 150 W peak power solar panel (about 1 m^2 in size, generates on average about 15 W power continuously. So, for 2.4 kWh daily energy, which is equivalent to 2.4 kWh / 24 hours = 100 W continuous, one would need about 7 m^2 of solar panel on the roof. It's not too difficult to do this.
In climates with more favourable solar conditions the area needed would decrease accordingly, but if you talk of a much smaller population, then the area needed should of course INcreasy accordingly.
shakiro
> without carbon emissions, the only cost-effective solution is nuclear > plants. And that has its own political and ecological consequences. See > http://www.world-nuclear.org/opinion/grant.htm I do not know wether this is really true.
shakiro
> Seth [snip>
|
| Seth Masia | 27 Aug 2005 13:54 |
The problem with burning hydrogen is that solar panels can't make enough of it. To replace today's vehicular use of oil, we'd need 230,000 tons of hydrogen daily. Solar cells to make that much hydrogen would cover about 20,000 square kilometers. To get this much power -- 400 gigawatts daily -- without carbon emissions, the only cost-effective solution is nuclear plants. And that has its own political and ecological consequences. See http://www.world-nuclear.org/opinion/grant.htm
Seth
>I think you're mostly right for short term, but long term belongs to >hydrogen. [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] >> Of note: Of course the best way to produce electricity in these often >> sunny third world countries is solar panels!! |
| LCT Paintball | 27 Aug 2005 12:23 |
I think you're mostly right for short term, but long term belongs to hydrogen. The problem with solar is storing the energy. Stick a solar panel in your back yard that converts water to hydrogen, and you can store as much as you want.
 Signature "Don't be misled, bad company corrupts good character." www.LCTPaintball.com www.LCTProducts.com
>I would like to present to you the (near) future of transportation... > [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > Of note: Of course the best way to produce electricity in these often > sunny third world countries is solar panels!! |
| max | 27 Aug 2005 10:23 |
I would like to present to you the (near) future of transportation...
Diesel hybrid cars (full two-mode plug-in hybrids) Diesel for motorcycles Diesel (probably 2-stroke) engines for general aviation (including rotorcraft) Extensive use of bio-diesel
Hybrid cars (gasoline)are in production Diesel hybrid trucks and busses are in production Diesel motorcycles are / will be in production soon Diesel aviation engines are in production...more are coming
Very soon we will see the first diesel hybrid passenger car in production
Diesel for aviation or motorcycles...they have been around for some time. Think of Junkers "Jumo" 205. Decades ago there were several Diesel aircraft engines built by Guiberson, Packard, Rolls-Royce, Clerget, Fiat and others. Royal Enfield (India) has had a diesel motorcycle in production for some time. I believe it is now discontinued.
Some diesel hybrid car prototypes...
GM's Ope Astra diesel hybrid Citroen Berlingo diesel hybrid VW Golf diesel hybrid (so I hear)
Some diesel aviation engine prototypes...
SMA Morane Renault MR 200 www.smaengines.com Teledyne Continental Motors CSD-283 www.teledyne.com (Nasa GAP) DeltaHawk V-4 www.deltahawkengines.com Zoche 01A www.zoche.de Diesel Air Ltd. DAIR-100 www.dair.co.uk
Some (gasoline) hybrid cars in production...
Toyota's Prius and Lexus Ford's Escape Hybrid
Some diesel motorcycle prototypes...
Diesel Kawasaki M1030 M1 (KLR 650) F1 Engineering / Hayes Diversified Technologies (HDT)
For third world countries a diesel motorcycle could be ideal. It is probably very dependable and durable and relatively easy to fix. It could be bi-fuel, meaning it could use diesel, Jet A, light heater oil and most importantly... bio-diesel and even straight vegetable oil (SVO). It could ne equipped with a small (max 200kg) 2-wheel trailer and a power take-out (PTO). The PTO would mostly be for a generator and/or (water) pump.
Picture this. In a third world country, a motorcycle travels 100km @ 80kmh with 2 litres vegetable oil that they have made themselves. It then pumps (with a pump attached at the PTO) from a deep dwell 150 litres of fresh water into a tank that's on the trailer, drives back and delivers the fresh water to the families in the village. Later at night, it runs to provide electricity (with a generator attached to the PTO) for many houses in the village and to recharge the batteries. This motorcycle and its accessories the families in the village have bought together, with some help from some organisation like the UN.
Of note: Of course the best way to produce electricity in these often sunny third world countries is solar panels!!
|
Quick links:
|
|
|