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Re: Re: pulling HEAVY, now what?

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Re: Re: pulling HEAVY, now what?

Max Dodge28 May 2007 03:04
>> The 48RE is plenty strong enough to deal with a light "chipping"
>
> what about "light" chipping while towing 16,000#?  what do you consider
> "light"?

You already have 610, going beyond 720-750 ftlbs would be more than "light".

>> advanced stages of "chipping" are not compatible with towing.
>
> i dont understand that.  please explain.

Due to the huge amounts of fuel pushed by the higher stages of the chips,
you risk a melt down to internal componants because of load and EGT temps
that do not stay at acceptable levels. These levels work fine if the engine
can move enough air to keep the "cool" air flowing, thus lowering EGT's. But
slow the RPM's, and EGT's go up, and risk of catastrophic failure follows.
You'll find that talking with the more reputable purveyors of these products
can steer you to thier model of choice for towing, rather than drag racing.
Tom Lawarence has a twin turbo setup that is fairly radical, but IIRC, could
be compatible with towing. If and when he chimes in, he'd be the guy to talk
to, since I'm sure he did a bunch of research.

>> dropping to 4.10 or 4.30 gears would help towing the trailer.
>
> what ratio do you think would be better?  4.10, 4.30, or 4.56?  what about
> a torque splitter, any recommendations there?
> thanks,

Personally, I'd go with the 4.10's or 4.30's. 4.56 would be overkill and a
PITA when not pulling the trailer. The PCM should be able to be flashed to
deal with the tire diameter and gear ratio combination, so the speedo will
be correct. The decisive factor in choosing the gears would be the RPM you
were turning going up the hills, I'd think with the ISBe, you would want to
be in the 1900-2300 range. The rest is math. Keep one thing in mind
though... more gear isn't necessarily going to make you faster up the hill,
but it will make it easier for the engine, and perhaps you'll gain some MPH
in the process. The only way to be sure you will go faster up a hill is to
add power.

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Max

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Nathan W. Collier27 May 2007 20:38
> The 48RE is plenty strong enough to deal with a light "chipping"

what about "light" chipping while towing 16,000#?  what do you consider
"light"?

> advanced stages of "chipping" are not compatible with towing.

i dont understand that.  please explain.

> dropping to 4.10 or 4.30 gears would help towing the trailer.

what ratio do you think would be better?  4.10, 4.30, or 4.56?  what about a
torque splitter, any recommendations there?
thanks,

Signature

Nathan In Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
http://1911Talk.com
http://GlockCarry.com
http://HiPowerTalk.com


Max Dodge27 May 2007 20:05
> Moving it and moving it effectly is a different matter and you need
> more that 3.73 gears to move a GCWR of around 12 ton effectively
> through mountains even with a CTD. That is why they have made
> different axle ratios for many many years. YOu can move a lot of
> weight with eninge a old 6 cylinder in a dump truck......

Blah blah blah.....

Shut the f.ck up. I never disagreed with your previous statement, yet you
have a need to attack my advice.

Here's where the bear sh.ts in the woods:

The 48RE is plenty strong enough to deal with a light "chipping" since
advanced stages of "chipping" are not compatible with towing. Secondly, yes,
dropping to 4.10 or 4.30 gears would help towing the trailer. However, your
extraneous statements about dump trucks, 6 cylinders, and fuel choices have
nothing to do with the question at hand. Lastly, my suggestion when towing
is ALWAYS to have the largest vehicle reasonable in front of the load. While
the Ram is fully capable and within its weight ratings to tow 16k lbs, the
wind effect on the side of that monster trailer might be better handled by
the Navistar "pickup", which weighs in at significantly more than the Ram.

> All
> things being equal you will get about 11 to 12% more pulling power in
> every gear with 4.10's

Bullshit. Simple math puts it at 10%. Try it sometime.

> There are some out there though that equate a CTD, PS or
> Dmax to a OTR engine but it is not and they will suffer when run at
> OTR HP power levels for extended periods of time.

The Cummins B series is in fact a medium duty engine, and thus superior to
the light duty PSD to DMax in design of block etc. The Cummins B series has
long been able to stand up well to ftlb ratings at 1000 ftlbs or so, and hp
ratings of over 500hp. No one is suggesting that Nate go to these levels,
although Tom L. drives every day at that level of power, and has not one
single problem with the diesel.

I suggest you learn more about the Cummins before dispensing advice about
its capabilities.

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Max

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"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
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-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

>>Tom Lawrence probably has the best idea on what ya need to do here. IMO,
>>that trailer needs something more like the Navistar "pickup" just for the
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

SnoMan27 May 2007 14:41
>Tom Lawrence probably has the best idea on what ya need to do here. IMO,
>that trailer needs something more like the Navistar "pickup" just for the
>weight that truck would bring. However, the Dodge is more than able to move
>it.

Moving it and moving it effectly is a different matter and you need
more that 3.73 gears to move a GCWR of around 12 ton effectively
through mountains even with a CTD. That is why they have made
different axle ratios for many many years. YOu can move a lot of
weight with eninge a old 6 cylinder in a dump truck if you have the
right gears. Your drive axles are the strongest reduction units in
your truck and when geared properly can exert a lot of force. All
things being equal you will get about 11 to 12% more pulling power in
every gear with 4.10's with no added engine or tranny strain like you
get from chipping it to gain same boost in towwing power. There is a
reason that 400 HP OTR rigs have 900 cu inch and bigger engines so
they do not have to be "chipped" and can last a very long time even at
max power. There are some out there though that equate a CTD, PS or
Dmax to a OTR engine but it is not and they will suffer when run at
OTR HP power levels for extended periods of time. This is not a Dodge,
Ford, GM thing but rather a common sense thing and it requires
regearing for a proper long term solution. It is lot different to tow
in rockies than it is in the flat lands and what may work in the flats
does not always work in mountains but some seem to forget that. How I
would configure a low altitude flat land tower vs one that is at high
altitude and in mountains is a completely different matter. Detriot
does not tell you this either because it might hurt sales image of top
end trucks.  If you elect to chip it to solve problem, save some money
for when stock tranny gives up the ghost on a long hard pull. It is
not a bad tranny but it will suffer for boosted torque on long hard
pulls and shorten its life. Many avid "chippers" do not even consider
this. Manuals are a little more tolerant of this.    
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

Max Dodge27 May 2007 12:56
Tom Lawrence probably has the best idea on what ya need to do here. IMO,
that trailer needs something more like the Navistar "pickup" just for the
weight that truck would bring. However, the Dodge is more than able to move
it.

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Max

Join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about.

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

> please see http://inlinediesel.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=617 and give
> me your feedback and advice.
> thanks,

Nathan W. Collier27 May 2007 07:25
please see http://inlinediesel.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=617 and give me
your feedback and advice.
thanks,

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Nathan In Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
http://1911Talk.com
http://GlockCarry.com
http://HiPowerTalk.com


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