If you consider a couple dozen incidents from two years ago to be
shocking, you are going to have a hard time finding any car that
measures up to your standards.  

If you are concerned about safety I would pay a lot more attention to
crash test results and insurance loss records.  Your chances of being
in a serious accident are much greater than suffering injury as a
result of this "defect."  50,000 people are killed in traffic
accidents each year.  No one was even injured as a result of these CRV
fires.  

If your concern is financial loss, Honda and/or the dealer would be
liable for this type of damage as well as any injuries which might
result.   That is there incentive to make sure the problem isn't
repeated.

If I was in the market for a new car and the CRV met my needs, I
wouldn't even consider these reports as a factor.  The problem is just
too obscure.

Please do.  We love informative posts because it increases our
knowledge and helps other Honda owners.  However, the issue you have
raised is known and does not appear to be currently relevant.  If you
find new information to the contrary, please do post it.

Since the new CRV is selling gangbusters, I doubt that they are going
to spend much time on a personal reply to you.  That goes double if
you come off as a nut, which you are dangerously close to doing.

Your tone and unrealistic expectations lead me to guess that you are
going to run into a dealership and demand that the salesman give you a
full accounting of this matter.  If you are this naive, I will tell
you right now that you are unlikely to find anyone at the dealership
that knows as much as you do already.

And he apparently suffered not even singed eyebrows.  There is very
limited amount of stuff in the front which can explode.  Maybe a pint
of well contained gasoline.  I don't doubt that at least some of these
cars burned to the ground, but the driver in each of these occurrences
got enough warning to stop the car and get everyone out.  That is
almost always the case with engine fires.

But they don't seem to be happening anymore, are they?  Something has
changed and it isn't an issue anymore, not even for owners of 2003 and
2004 CRVs.  Are you going to buy a '03 or '04?  If so, you might want
to do more research, but I don't think you are going to find anything
else on this.  If you are going to buy a 2007 CRV, it is a completely
different vehicle.  The incidents from 2003 are completely irrelevant.

I'm sure Honda will send the chief engineer right over to explain it
to you.

Gordon McGrew sez...

Not when there are reports of fires and explosions!!

You take your own advice - for my hard earned money, my research has yielded
shocking results.

Oh, I beg to differ!!

Let's see you pay for a motor vehicle knowing the risks from the past.

Listen to me: I will be doing more research into this!!

I want answers from Honda if they expect me to even look in their direction
as I drive past their lot on the way to the Toyota dealership.

I want to ask you to re-read the report of the explosion as the gentleman
was attempting to open the hood and the entire front end exploded into
flames.

I just can't ignore the RECENT past - it was only a few years ago!

Yes, Honda redesigned the CR-V - but I want answers. I want to know
specifics of this redesign.
_________
===fish===
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

The '07s are redesigned and I would think that they would do anything
practical to reduce this risk.

There were a few possible contributing causes:

1.  Oil filters installed too tight at the factory or some other
problem that caused the gasket to stick to the mounting plate when the
filter was removed at the first oil change.

2.  Service techs not noticing the sticking gasket and installing the
new filter with its gasket on top of the old one.  This caused massive
and immediate leaks (which the tech also should have noticed.)

3.  Because of the layout in the engine compartment, the leaking oil
landed on the exhaust which caused it to catch fire after a few miles.

#1 can happen from time to time on any car, thus making it critical
that service techs guard against #2.  #3 is true of other Honda
vehicles (and perhaps other makes.)  Not clear why this caused CRVs to
catch fire more than any other such car.

This was a little mysterious, but the problem was easily avoidable
with a little care.  The problem was never very common (22 out of
140,000 2003s = 1 per 6000+) and doesn't seem to have occurred
recently indicating that the problem has been solved one way or the
other.

If the CRV meets your needs, you can buy it with confidence.  This
minor glitch from the past isn't a factor.  (By minor, I mean that we
are talking about a couple dozen vehicles out of millions that Honda
has sold.  I'm sure those few incidents were dramatic although calling
it an explosion would be overstating it a bit.)

Gordon McGrew sez...

Yes - I am currently researching for my next motor vehicle and was very
seriously considering a Honda CR-V because it is rated very high on Consumer
Reports as well as Edmunds and Kelly's Blue Book.

However, what I would like to know is this.

Did Honda ever redesign the CR-V to prevent that type of disaster from ever
happening again?

As a consumer, I am currently afraid of the Honda product CR-V SUV motor
vehicle.
__________
===fish===
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Thanks for the stroll down memory lane.  Any reason you are posting
this now?

27 Fires Linked To Oil Changes In Honda CR-V (washingtonpost.com)27 Fires
Linked To Oil Changes In Honda CR-V

By Greg Schneider
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, July 9, 2004; Page A01

At least 27 Honda CR-V sport-utility vehicles from the 2003 and 2004 model
years burst into flames shortly after getting their first oil changes,
according to records provided to the federal government by the manufacturer.

While no injuries were reported, many of the vehicles were destroyed,
usually with 10,000 miles or fewer on their odometers.
The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration investigated the
situation and concluded July 1 that the cases were the fault of dealerships
or others who improperly installed oil filters. The agency agreed with
American Honda Motor Co. that oil from the filters most likely leaked onto
the vehicles' hot exhaust systems, quickly igniting -- in some cases as the
owners drove the small SUVs home from being serviced.

"We consulted with Honda. Honda concluded it was a technician's error, and
they have taken steps to make sure service technicians who work on this
vehicle understand that they need to be particularly diligent when they
replace the oil filter," NHTSA spokesman Rae Tyson said.
But auto safety advocates say they're dismayed that the agency didn't take a
stronger stand. "Relatively new cars catching on fire? Running the risk of
injuring their occupants? It's a very unusual and a very dangerous
situation," said Sally Greenberg of Consumers Union, publisher of Consumer
Reports. The fact that a routine oil change could have such catastrophic
results suggests "a dire and a dangerous situation that both the automaker
and the auto safety agency should have looked much more closely at," she
said.

Honda, whose products are consistently rated among the safest vehicles,
doesn't know why the fires are happening in only the two most recent CR-V
models, spokesman Andy Boyd said. "That's the part we're still
investigating. Honestly, that's something we're still trying to understand,"
he said, adding that there have been no major design changes.

While Boyd said the problem is "absolutely not a design defect," he said the
CR-V's engine is configured "such that there is a higher likelihood of oil
spraying onto the manifold than . . . on other vehicles." Honda has no plan
to recall the vehicles and install a barrier to block the oil from hitting
the hot exhaust manifold, he said.

"At this stage I don't believe we think a recall is warranted," Boyd said
"We think with a little more communication and education with the dealers,
the problem can be eliminated."

About 140,000 CR-Vs were sold in the United States in 2003. Honda said 22 of
them caught fire from the apparent oil filter problem. So far this year,
five owners of 2004 CR-Vs have reported such fires to NHTSA.

NHTSA's records relate the stories of drivers whose vehicles caught fire.
Their names were blacked out. A woman driving on Braddock Road in Northern
Virginia last January noticed smoke coming from under her 2003 CR-V. A
passerby pulled up and told her it was on fire, so she swerved onto the
shoulder, the electrical system shorted out and all the doors locked. She
got out without injury.

A North Carolina family driving to church one Sunday in May noticed smoke
and had to rush to get their two small children unbuckled from safety seats
before their 2004 CR-V went up in flames.

A Georgia man coming home from a flea market stopped when he noticed smoke,
tried to open his hood and "heard an explosion and the front end just burst
into flames," according to records Honda supplied to NHTSA.

All had recently had their oil changed for the first time. Honda recently
warned its technicians about the need to be careful replacing oil filters in
a regular newsletter mailed out to all 1,008 U.S. dealer service shops, Boyd
said.

Now the company is drafting a letter to the dealerships themselves, as well
as preparing an article for a newsletter sent periodically to independent
repair shops such as Jiffy Lube and Pep Boys. Honda also plans to change the
language on the oil filter itself and its packaging, warning of the dangers
of improper installation.

There are no plans to send warnings to customers who might change the oil
themselves, Boyd said.

The problem is believed to happen one of two ways: The O-ring gasket on the
old oil filter sometimes sticks to the crankcase, and if the new filter is
installed over it, oil can leak around it. Or, if the gasket on the new
filter isn't lubricated properly, it might set incorrectly and allow oil to
leak around it. Then it can spray onto the hot manifold and burn.

Kay C. Brittain of Jacksonville, Fla., was driving to work from her first
5,000-mile oil change when she noticed black smoke in her rearview mirror.
She pulled onto the median to turn and go back to the dealership, but a
passing motorist shouted that her 2004 CR-V was on fire.
A week later, the elderly parents of one of Brittain's co-workers avoided
injury when their 2003 CR-V burst into flames.

Brittain, 56, who learned from Web site chat groups of other such incidents
around the country, said she had no problems with the 2002 CR-V she drove
for two years before trading it in for the new model. Now that she has
gotten her dealer to replace the one that burned with another 2004 CR-V, she
has lost her peace of mind.

"It just scares me. Here I'm sitting with a brand new car, and come 5,000
miles I'm going to have to go through it again," she said. "I don't want
this to happen to somebody else. If there is a problem, I think Honda should
acknowledge it and at least check this out and not write it off.
"I'm just afraid something bad's going to happen. I just want them to take
it seriously."

© 2004 The Washington Post Company