That is true.. Can happen with the best of them..
I totally agree with Nate about the fram filters on some six cyl
engines. They are a *proven* disaster waiting to happen. I
even tried one myself to see.. I had to yank it within one day.
Trust me, I don't yank new filters, unless I have a good
reason..  :/
Now, I can see some engines not having a problem with fram
filters. Most of the problems with frams on six bangers are
from the physical position of the filter, and the fast drain it
will do if the valve is a bad design.  But many engines don't
mount the filters in that position, and thus probably would
not have the problem.
But...Being I know fram skimps on their anti-drainback valves,
I don't really trust them as far as the other parts of the filter.
So I don't use them at all, just to be on the safe side.
Purolator in general makes very high quality filters.
At least I know they have good anti drain valves.
The motorcraft FL1A that I use on the ford trucks and
have zero problems with may well use a purolator design,
and I've heard some are actually made by purolator.
Supposably WIX filters are pretty good, although I've
never tried one. Those are sold by NAPA, etc..
Myself, I'm not overally picky about filters.. Or at least
I don't buy the high $$$$ versions that offer fine filtration,
etc.. I'm of the opinion that too good a filter is not good
either.. They clog faster in general, and if the bypass
has to kick in....  :( No bueno..
As far as the seals sticking, it can happen to just about
any of them if the seal gets stuck good enough..
Or at least for the ones that use a "flat" seal surface.
The ones with a sunk "O-ring" type of seal tend to
stick less. But... You should still double check every
time, or verify that the old one is still on the old filter
when you yank it. Myself, I use a dab of oil off the old
seal to lube the new seal. So if I reach over to grab a
touch of oil, and the seal ain't there, I know it's still
on the engine. I've had it happen maybe 2-3 times
in a few hundred oil changes. I once dumped a
couple of quarts on a service bay floor when this
happened at a place I worked at years ago.
Needless to say, I always made sure the seal didn't
stick after that..
Over the years, I've changed the oil in hundreds of
vehicles starting with helping my grandfather do it
at his Texaco station when I was a kid, and then
through 2-3 stations I worked at when younger.
At one local Texaco, I did several a day, every day..
Also all my cars through the years.. I've never
had anyone else change the oil on any of my cars
since I started driving. So I do know a little bit
about changing oil and filters regardless of "local"
opinion to the contrary..
One tip... Never , ever change the oil and filter
on a vehicle and not look for leaks under the
car when through, and cranked up..
I've heard stories of JL's not doing that and having
the car come right back with a dry engine..
I'd strangle anyone that did that to one of my cars.
Maybe that why I always do it myself. I'm just
trying to save the life of some poor JL dude or
dudette..  lol..
MK

Don't blame the filter for operator error! ANY filter can leave a gasket
behind, that's why you should check and clean the gasket surface on the
engine's oil filter mounting flange every time. Purolator and Wix are
probably the best filters on the market, overall.

they are good quality. the oil filter i dont like is purolator. i had one of
their oil filters leave the gasket on my engine when i changed the filter
and i started the car and saw my brand new oil all over the pavement. it
wasn't synthetic oil at the time that i was using but it made me have to
walk to a gas station and pay double what walmart or autozone would charge
per quart for more oil just so i could drive my car.

                                         -jeff

It's not recently, it was years ago they got bought out by someone, I
forget who.  But my comments stem from personal experience, their
anti-drainback valves simply don't work, at least on a slant six MoPar
application.  I've also heard of them blowing apart at the seams on
engines who develop higher-than-normal (>100 PSI) oil pressure on a cold
start, like VWs, but that part is anecdotal.

nate

If I remember correctly ? Fram has gone an ownership change recently
according to other NG`s I read and the quality of their oil filters
has improved dramaticaly according to all reports ?

Someone cut a Fram filter in half to inspect the internals and found
it has all the same quality ingredients as the more expensive "name "
brands.

I dont know how true this is but seems where theres smoke theres fire

Somehow I missed the post that you replied to, but I feel compelled to
reply... if you're using Fram filters, you're not doing it right.  Fram
is a triumph of marketing over quality...

nate

I use a 25 year veteran mechanic who has been a Honda guy for that whole
time.  I sit there and watch while he does it, and we shoot the sh.t.  
He's a friend of mine now.  He's the only guy I let touch my Hondas.

I know it's done right, because I watched.  And I get many benefits from
doing it that way, benefits that are more than paid for by that extra
few bucks I pay for labor.

i do it myself and save money. for the price to pay somebody to change your
oil i go to walmart buy a fram oil filter and a 5 quart bottle of castrol
syntec full synthetic oil and change it myself and i know it's done right.
and my oil stays cleaner longer than those shops that plug up the drain plug
before everything is even drained out. read your owners manual and get a
haynes repair manual and go at it.

                                -jeff

The exact thing happened to me several years ago, thanks to the
experienced eye of a long time regular tech.

On Aug 16, 5:03 pm, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com>
wrote:

This is why I prefer to have a small shop do it, because a good tech
can sometimes spot stuff that he's not even looking for, e.g. "there's
some grease on the inside of your LF wheel, I checked it out and your
CV boot has a little tear in it, want me to go ahead and replace it
before it becomes a problem?"

Last time I had the corner guy look at my truck, he identified a
vacuum issue with my HVAC controls (which I knew about) and fixed it
for about $40 which was fine by me because it would have taken me
longer than a half hour to trace it out.

nate

They do in my case.  Most dealers have a newbie doing it, but my
dealership simply has the regular mechanics do it.

I'm happy, because (a) my regular mechanic does it, and (b) he's putting
his practiced eye underneath the car as he does so.  It all works out
very well.

On Aug 15, 5:57 pm, techman41...@yahoo.com wrote:

The biggest variable is the local managers of the shops, as well as
the dealers, as well as other chains, as well as independent
mechanics. The secon biggest variable is the talent of whoever's doing
the work. You don't think the dealer is putting his best men on the
problem of oil changing, I hope. I've had lube chains screw up the
plug and/or the filter so bad that the dealer couldn't deal with it,
and I've had other chains manage to fix the screwed up plug and/or
filter that the dealer couldn't fix.

That said, I've gone back to my original idea, which is that it's bad
practice to let other people do this kind of stuff. I got one of those
valves that go into the plug to make it easier.

I am on the road often enough where I need to get my oil changed at
Jiffy Lube or other convenient type of oil change place. Is there any
quality or performance difference between the bulk oil they use or the
optional bottled oil (penzoil) that they offer for $10-$15 more?
I have heard many horror stories regarding Jiffy Lube, although I
guess I am lucky with 220K on my Honda Accord. Taking my car to the
dealer just for an oil change on the road seems ridiculous. Just
wondeingr what others look for in an oil-change place to insure
quality work (those who fear Jiffy Lube) when they can't do it
themselves.
Thanks