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Re: crank bolt tightening debate

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Re: crank bolt tightening debate

karl30 Nov 2005 01:31
> From: "alt.autos.honda group" <noreply@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 19:06:41 +0000
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> on the loctite to hold the bolt. (Not good practice, but it
> happens.)

This is a crucial point. Not only is unknown whether the
timing belt changes were done correctly but it is also unknown
where the parts came from. Therefore, all the provided
"evidence" is worthless and cannot be used in an objective
evaluation.

Michael Pardee06 Nov 2005 16:50
What muddies the comparison is that the cars were both old enough to have
been through at least one timing belt change, so we don't know how diligent
the mechanics were about retightening to the spec'd torque. It could be that
the one who loctited the bolt also wimped out on the torque, relying on the
loctite to hold the bolt. (Not good practice, but it happens.)

I'm completely undecided on this debate.

Mike

jim beam05 Nov 2005 01:07
this afternoon, i went to my favorite junkyard and bought two crank
bolts.  one from an 91 civic, one from a 92 civic.  i'm going to post
the pics later this evening, but the observations are these:

_91_
* eyeball=poppingly hard to shift - had to get a fulcrum and bounce full
bodyweight at the end of a 18"x3/4" breaker bar.
* no evidence of loctite.
* clear fretting damage on the mating surface between the washer & the
bolt head.
* no evidence of corrosion.  [i'm in california]
* pulley wheel locked with single woodruff key.

_92_
* it was definitely snug, but i could remove with one hand.
* bolt thread clearly loctited.
* no evidence of fretting.
* no evidence of corrosion.
* pulley wheel splined /and/ woodruffed.

now, we all know what loctite does - it binds threads so they don't
move.  no movement means no possible further tightening.  loctite also
means a bolt is hard to remove compared to its fastening torque.

conclusions:

1. there is /definitely/ lash in the 91 pulley wheel - something that
honda evidently felt needed to be addressed with the addition of a
splined interface for the 92.  [splines don't eliminate lash, but help
mitigate it.]  fretting [or lack thereof in the case of the 92] is as
clear an evidence of lash as you can get.

2. loctite /prevents/ further tightening of the bolt!  hence the 92 was
much easier to remove, despite the loctite's binding function.  the
reduced lash would help in this regard also.

time to get out the camera...

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