"Dori A Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> haute in die Tasten:

My guts tell me that the CLS will not be a huge success for the company. I
think that most CLS buyers would have bought another Mercedes, if the CLS
would not have been launched. Okay, maybe Mercedes can earn some additional
money, because a CLS is more expensive than an E-class.

Frank

The more we discuss this the more I think the present Maybach concept is
mad.  But then, Mercedes corporate management (as opposed to car division
people) has a history curious decisions: electric household goods, aerospace
(all loss-making).

If you have that kind of money, wouldn't you buy a Ferrari instead, to add
to the S-Class or Jag saloon you already have?

Just read the first review of the CLS.  Actually a dramatic-looking car
("just don't call it a coup?...") and good against putative competitors like
a BMW 6 or a Jag 'S', but its target group?

Many years ago I read that for an automobile company to survive it will have
to be good a making small runs of a variety of 'specialist' cars (in the
days when only long runs of the same thing were economical.  Clearly
Mercedes is going down this route but the extent seems extreme.  The
wonderful German expression "sich verzetteln" springs to mind.  It is
related to frittering away.

Irrelevant aside:  I found a Berlinerisch - English dictionary....
http://wolfram.schneider.org/dict/dict.cgi?query=jwd&plang=bln&db=tuc&lang=0&db=
tuc&icase=1&wholewords=0&regexp=0&hits=50&matches=0

DAS

[..........]

"Dori A Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> haute in die Tasten:

One have to take one other thing into consideration: Chances for Maybach to
sell a lot of cars have become smaller, because the new Rolls Royce seems
to be a hard competitor. Actually I did never understand the urge to launch
a new top brand. Mercedes has succeded in the '60s to launch a top-end
limousine, the 600 Pullman. They could have done that again, instead of
just providing bad looking stretch S-classes.

Frank

Absolutely.

How's this for a theory?

The Maybach concept was misconceived from the start.  Sole purpose was to
satisfy the egomania of one or two senior execs to have an outrageously
expensive car to top Bentley (i.e. VW) and RR (i.e. BMW).

I, as a humble salesman of machines to industry, thus knowing nothing about
the general 'consumer', think that honouring/remembering Wilhelm Maybach in
some way is, in fact, a worthy idea.  I would take one or two 500 or 600 S
long-wheelbase models, kit them out with extra-expensive options, add maybe
30 000 to 50 000 euros to the price, add a discreet 'M' logo (not jokes
about BMW please) somewhere and call them S-Class Maybach Edition.

I am sure I read at the Maybach launch that the total market in this sector
is only 10 000 per annum.  This would include Bentley et al.  I think DC
were being optimistic in thinking they can sell 1000 per year.

DAS

"Baby Maybach"? Wouldn't that be more like a top-end Mercedes? If they plan
to introduce such a product, then I really don't understand their marketing
strategy (and I'm in marketing). I realize that at this point they need the
brand to begin show some kind of return, but to force it by introducing a
product that may very well cut into the sales of their bread-and-butter line
just seems remarkably short-sighted. Unless MB conciously plans to downgrade
the overall MB brand in favor of broader Maybach line (unlikely and
foolhardy), introducing a 'small' Maybach will serve little purpose other
than to confuse MB's top-end consumer by diminishing from the exclusivity of
the Maybach brand (still it's major selling point), and at the same time
reducing the desirability of the overall Mercedes line by conspicuously
promoting another (presumably) similarly-priced product as a major step up
from the 'standard' high end Mercedes.

If I were a marketing director with MB, I'd send this plan straight back to
the drawing board.

They miss sales figures by far - and they will never ever
be able to make any money from the Maybach brand in the
next ten years or so even in case the to-come Baby-Maybach
(greetings to Stuttgart - I know you hate that expression!)
will be a good seller as break-even is 15.000+ cars.

Juergen

The other day I saw a report where a DC spokesman admitted to difficulties
in the top end (i.e. Maybach) sector.

Now there's a surprise.

DAS

If there are only 500 in the US, then at least half of them are in NYC. I
see more Maybachs now than I have ever seen Rolls or Bentley.

<<  but are they worth the USD 200 000 plus over the top S-Class? >><BR><BR>

Over the current S-class, yes. Over the early 90's S-class, may be not that
much better, except in dynamics and interior opulence.

It is hard to quantify/justify $200,000. I must say, the engineering of the car
is what you are paying for, not the content of it. Its how well, part from
other Mercedes came together for a greater whole.

I would say if it had a $200,000 price tag, it would be in my driveway now. Its
far superior to any Mercedes (as a whole car) ever made.

Considering there is about 500 or so cars to be sold in US, I guess you need to
charge a premium to keep a float. Besides, many corporations are willing to pay
$350,000 for a car to take their CEOs around. You can write it off.

I am not trying to defend the high price tag. Its overpriced, no need to beat
around the bush. I just want more, at least more real content like a ground
braking classic grill, classic headlights, not so droopy body, just about no
trendy design (if so I would get a Toyota), turbo charged twin-DOHC V24 (yes
24... why not), and some nicer looking wheels...

Regards,
Jayanthan (Jay) Bala.
P.S. In the future please use:
[PixMovieMaker@hitpix.net]

Chauffeur-driven, dear Jay, chauffeur-driven...

More seriously, other than some of the detail, I would have thought you get
just about most of this on an S-Class (even bearing your specific comment in
mind).

I have a far lesser car (a 'mere' CLK), but with its relatively 'tiny' 218
hp 3.2 l engine I still get to 100+ mph in a frighteningly short time.  The
noise inside the cabin is somewhat higher, especially as it's a rag-top
cabrio, but I accept that.  The feel is of quality even there, and the ride
is fine.

You have given the Maybach a lot of merit points, very nice, but are they
worth the USD 200 000 plus over the top S-Class?   (Other than the
exclusivity/rarity/look-I'm-rich aspect.)

As I suggested in another, similar thread, admittedly without driving a
Maybach, a top S and an SL together are a better, more economical
proposition than a Maybach.

DAS

[..........]

Finally got time to write something that needs a bit of thought.

You got about two hours to drive the car, I think I had it for three hours or
so. I did not feel the time at all. Its very comfortable, never a felt bumps on
the road, its silky ride is highly memorable; its least fatiguing... time flies
in the car. It accelerates vigorously yet with the civility of a luxury
automobile; no head snapping, yet you feel the pull, very strong like an
aircraft about to be airborne.

During this massive acceleration, you can change lanes, overtake and get back
to your original track--its truly a beautiful experience--its composure stays
calm during all this. Speedometer reads 120 mph within few seconds during that
maneuver, do not feel the speed at all. It felt like 70 mph or so ... except
you begin to feel the cars in the front, traveling in your direction, suddenly
speeding toward you. It can be a bit scary. The breaks are very powerful: In no
time you are following the traffic! Only thought that goes through your mind at
the end of this few seconds is, this is good, I want one! Though, I felt the
steering wheel could be a bit tighter, sport mode or otherwise, it was a bit
too free wheeling or may be I am used to tighter... I am not suggesting we go
back to manual steering ... far from it.

The 57 Maybach, as big as it looks, its a nimble car. Its butter smooth and
crisp in corners as well as in tight parking lots! I was very surprised.
Interior is sweet. Seats, head rest, trims are the worlds best. Its just
perfect. Some part of the dashboard uses real leather, but treated to look like
suede. It makes for great look, but it shows finger marks too easily and that
doesn't look good. I am sure you could lint-free cloth or something and wipe it
down in on uniform direction and it would look super. I think such would be
great on the 63 Maybach as its a driver-driven car, you sit at the back and
enjoy the view.

The 600 some HP engine is well mated and felt precise. Though, it is typical of
the SOHC of Mercedes of today. Somewhat tinny, light weight feeling and not so
refined, reminds me of it as a "lease" car feeling. While the past SL600 or the
S600 engine has a sense of weight and "command" is clearly absent. Paint job is
first class, the one I tested was gray on silver dual tone. Its very classy, I
loved it.

Unfortunately, the front grill is trendy than classy, it looks like they looked
for inspiration form the International truck grill. I wish they designed a
grill for the next 100 years. Head lights are nice, again, I would set the
industrial design of the head lights to something of a classic shape "beaming
with power." Its the eyes of the machine. May be Maybach should call me in to
consult on overall theme/design or the ID of the car.

On U-turns or extreme sharp corners I couldn't break its back loose to swing
the back to reposition the car. May be I should try it again, but there was
something strange: On a U-turn from rest, when I tried to get the back to break
away, the car instead tilted, sort of like sitting on its side feeling. My
speculation is that the six or seven thousand pounds was thrown off and the
self leveling may be doesn't kick in till a certain speed....

It does leave you with a somewhat mixed feeling of spending U$350,000 or so on
it. I am still thinking. I need something, that final oomps, to just walk in
there and buy one. Oh well...

Overall, it is a fine, ultra classy automobile.

Regards,
Jayanthan (Jay) Bala.
P.S. In the future please use:
[PixMovieMaker@hitpix.net]